Crazy Stupid Love - Part 2

Bad pickup lines, toxic masculinity, inappropriate crushes, The Dirty Dancing Lift and David Lindhagen. That's right, this week we are talking about PART TWO if 2011 Rom-Com Crazy Stupid Love with Steve Carell, Julianne Moore, Ryan Gosling, and Emma Stone.

Join us next week for The Idea of You with Anne Hathaway and Nicholas Galitzine.  Now streaming on Amazon Prime

Kira - 

Overall Tacos - 2

Love Lesson Tacos -2

Isabelle - 

Overall Tacos - 5

Love Lesson Tacos - 5 

Streaming on Apple TV+

Come talk with us about your favorite rom-coms on instagram, tiktok, & youtube and Bluesky!

Get show notes, transcripts, and more information on at Rom-ComRescue.com

Chapters

• 0:00 Intro
• 1:02 Announcements (Bridgerton Week)
• 3:56 Continuing Chronological Breakdown of Crazy Stupid Love
• 1:08:25 Favorite Moments & Quotes
• 1:10:00 Emotional Availability
• 1:11:34 Favorite Characters
• 1:13:26 Trivia
• 1:16:28 Would they last?
• 1:17:46 Our reviews

Transcript

Rom-Com Rescue Crazy Stupid Love Part 2

Isabelle: [00:00:00] Bad pickup lines, toxic masculinity, inappropriate crushes, The Dirty Dancing Lift and David Lindhagen. That's right, this week we are talking about 2011 rom com Crazy Stupid Love with Steve Carell, Julianne Moore, Ryan Gosling, and Emma Stone.

Welcome to the rom com rescue podcast, a brand new podcast, where we bring the love and life lessons from your favorite rom coms. I'm Kira Sabin. I'm a healthy dating educator, a certified coach and a positive psychology practitioner. But more importantly, I spend my days teaching the skills and mindsets of dating.

And I'm Dr. Isabel Morley. I'm a licensed clinical psychologist and an EFT certified couples therapist. And I help couples have the happiest, healthiest relationship possible. Join us weekly as we break down the best love lessons from your favorite rom coms so we can all get into the best relationships possible, because we believe that we create our own [00:01:00] happily ever afters. 

Kira: Well, hello everybody. We are so excited you're here for this not single but double episode of Crazy Stupid Love because we thought there was so much meat to this movie. And by the way, we have very differenting opinions on this one. So we want to turn it into a double episode so we could really dig in. 

A couple of quick announcements, so you can keep up with the next couple of weeks. Next week, we are going to be talking about. The idea of you, the brand new romcom on Amazon prime. Starring Anne Hathaway. 

And Nicholas Galitzine

This just came out. So you can watch it on Amazon prime we both have already watched it and loved it and decided to take it on for next week. But the more exciting [00:02:00] news.

 So guess what, everybody? We are going to be breaking down Bridgerton. That's right. We are going to have a Bridgerton week where we do a couple of episodes when the first part comes out, breaking down the love lessons. I am a huge Bridgerton fan. I'm really excited about this season.

I really love Penelope.

I really love Colin. We're going to be dressing up. There is going to be, All the tea being poured and spilled. But we're going to have a lot of fun with us. We hope you join us.

Come follow us on our Instagram, our TikTok, anywhere that you love to follow people. And we will be discussing Bridgerton. We will be breaking it down. We will be dressing ridiculously and enjoying ourselves. We hope you join us. 

Isabelle: You know, you don't even know this actually, Kiara, but I have written articles for Psychology Today analyzing previous seasons of Bridgerton. So this [00:03:00] is just exactly what we have to be doing. There is so much content, there's so much to consider, and I haven't loved all the parts of previous seasons because it's a lot of enemies to lovers and there was a lot of deceit happening that didn't feel great, but this season I think is really promising because Penelope is fantastic, Colin is adorable, and I just can't wait to dive into it with you.

Speaker 3: Plus there's nothing wrong with those Bridgerton men? There's

Speaker: No, there's not.

Speaker 3: there is not. And I

Speaker: Easy to look at.

Speaker 3: right, I feel like they, ease right into book talk pretty easily. And I know what a fan you are of that.

Speaker: And that's actually a series that I haven't read because there are no elves and there are no fae. So what's the point?

Speaker 3: boo!

Speaker: know what I'm saying?

Speaker 3: it's not fairy smut, we don't want it. 

Kira: So let's get into. [00:04:00] Part two of crazy stupid love today. If you have not listened to part one, we really encourage you to do so. And if you haven't watched the movie in a while, we encourage you to do that too, because this is a deep, deep, deep ass dive. Into this movie and you'll miss a lot of things. So without further ado. Crazy stupid love. Part two. 

. 

Kira: So, back at the bar, we

see Cal trying to talk to women. Not so well. And then we see probably the other triggering thing besides the word soulmate in here is that we see Jacob using really classic pickup techniques. And that's a really dirty part of the dating world for me, right?

That there are, especially around this time, people teaching men ways to talk to women that would manipulate them into going home, sleeping with them, or just even giving them time and attention that they really did not deserve. And [00:05:00] I just think it's a really dirty part of dating. I think it's a really manipulative part of dating and I don't, once again, I don't think it gets us love.

I'm here for things that get us love. So I actually think that, Jacob. Once again, he's pretty honest. He's not acting like he's going to be your long term boyfriend. He's not promising he's going to fly you to Asia in a couple of months. He's like, I'm going to go home. We're going to have a fantastic night. 

So I at least appreciate that. I appreciate, we can call him like a dog or a player, but he's honest.

I would rather that Cal's not honest. Cal's this is all my wife's fault and David Lindhagen fault , instead of, what role did I play here?

 But I picked up the negging techniques, which is saying negative things to catch them off their game. 

Isabelle: Make them prove themselves to 

Kira: Exactly. So I just really hated that, that part of it, that he was basically using and teaching him

pick up artist techniques instead of any kind of Hey, let's look at [00:06:00] how you can do this better.

So I realized that was not Jacob's role here, but man, it was just, ugh,

that, that part just made me feel gross. But we finally get to go to

Emily's office and meet. David

Lindhagen, which being from the Midwest, that is such a Midwestern name I feel like he's from Minnesota and Kevin Bacon.

Isabelle: Kevin Bacon, and he does it right. He is the perfect David Lindhagen. I like him. I have to say that, not even just the actor, I love the actor, but I like this character. I feel like here's a man who's fallen for his co worker, who knows what she's confided about whether or not Her marriage is over. She's unhappy.

I know, you're laughing. It's because I love this movie so much. Let me tell you the fake backstory I've built up. They've gotten closer over the months. She's confided how unhappy she is. He really cares about it. He cares about her. They sleep together 

Kira: are [00:07:00] you right now? Who are you? I cannot, 

Isabelle: I know.

Kira: stay married because I can't let you out into that dating world.

Isabelle: I know.

Nobody wants to see that.

Kira: not ready. You're not ready. But I love this backstory that you've created here's what I felt. Like it's interesting that you created that story because the story I created was He's interested in her.

I hear stories like this all the time where unhappy married coworker who starts talking about how unhappy the marriage is, one thing turns into another, blah, blah, blah, blah. Bye. I actually feel like what we're sensing from Emily is she thinks that was a mistake. That's not happening again. They're not dating. She's not even like saying I've fallen in love with a coworker. She's basically just told Cal, and I think even the way she reacts to David Lidhagen is, I'm trying to figure out my life. And you're like a little bit 

Isabelle: But she didn't 

Kira: part of the situation. 

Isabelle: [00:08:00] Yeah she's not 

Kira: but I, 

Isabelle: or anything. 

Kira: but I don't. And I don't think that she's really receiving his pursuit. They do go on a date a little bit later, but especially this early on I don't think that they've connected and they're having an affair. I think that they

had sex at probably a conference or something, and now we see the aftermath.

But I, yeah, it's interesting that you have created this story where they're dating, because I

don't see that at all.

Isabelle: and I think yours is very likely, and I think the part that doesn't work for me is that he's skipping the emotional work of, hey, how are you doing? I know that Cal just moved out, or I know you're probably going through a lot right now with everything that's happened. He doesn't make space, and if you fall in love with your coworker and sleep with them and want to eventually be with them.

You have to also go through this process of them grieving the loss of their marriage and, going through the divorce process, which just the legal part of it is extensive [00:09:00] and painful and expensive. He just seems to want to like skip that part of it and just be with her without this huge thing happening in her life.

I

Kira: situation, because I think

the statistics of people who end up being long term with the person that they cheat with

Isabelle: It's low. It's 

Kira: It's very low. So that's amazing that you're like, she and

Isabelle: I 

Kira: Linhagen. So, 

Isabelle: is this movie my bad relationship that I will make any excuse for just to be with it? I think it might 

Kira: It might be. I'm pretty sure, When Harry Met Sally is mine, right? Hear me out everybody. It'll be a big moment if we ever do a Harry Met Sally on this because I refuse to look at it critically. I refuse. Because I love it so much. I've seen it a thousand, like a hundred times, I can quote it. I refuse to look at it critically. I don't want, I know, [00:10:00] I can see who they are, but I don't want to look at it. And there's just sometimes we love something. We love something. I feel a little bad now that we've had to take this movie. Although, it's okay because you seem super Cinderella about it so it's all good.

 We're good because you're like, it's fine. It's fine. It's gonna work out

Isabelle: He didn't mean it. He didn't mean it.

Kira: So, yeah, so we see him a little bit persistent like he's wanting to spend time with her He's wanting to get to know he knows that she and Cal are not together but I feel like Just the level of stress in her look on her face is I gotta figure some shit out here, David.

I gotta figure some shit out. We quickly see that Robby

Isabelle: Robbie.

Kira: am really torn between talking about how I don't like a kid character, because I usually do, and because I just don't like the character they created for this poor kid. I do not. So he's now decided that because his 17 [00:11:00] year old babysitter doesn't want to be with him, that, he hates love, that love is an asshole. He, shouts how much love is an asshole at school. And what I wrote down is this kid is struggling. I This acting out is struggling and no one is caring.

Nobody is caring. And Emily picks him up and they just joke about Oh, you still have to read the scarlet letter instead of,

Hey, dude, are you okay? 

Isabelle: Huh.

Kira: Your dad and I are going through a divorce. You're screaming that love is an asshole in your English class. Do we maybe need to sit down and talk? Do we maybe need to get you somebody to talk to? That's not me.

Isabelle: And they keep saying it's like, Oh, Robbie is just struggling with his first love, and that's why he's so upset. As if there isn't another bigger thing happening in his life, which is his parents getting divorced after selling him the story that soulmates exist. And that is the most important thing, is to find and [00:12:00] keep your soulmate, which this young kid is trying to do, while he watches his parents get ripped apart.

The whole thing, it just is bizarre to me, the way they do not, They don't show up for him, they don't check in with him, and that it's like we're all okay with it? No one points that out as a problem?

Kira: I just think there's so much inappropriateness here with the storylines of the 13 year old and the 17 year old that made me just feel super uncomfortable and feels very problematic. And I mentioned that a little bit later, but I said Robbie is funny and I love him when he gets to be just a sarcastic and funny teenager, which is exactly what his role He should not have been the love guru.

And the voice of reason in this movie as a 13 year old. And then, Emily actually asks Robbie how Cal is.

Isabelle: Not appropriate. Do not do that. What is [00:13:00] she thinking?

Kira: Who like I said, start saving up your kids are gonna, they need therapy right now, by the way, like Robbie does, but they're definitely going to need it because these kids are struggling through this divorce, the separation, and you guys are so wrapped up in your own shit, you don't see it.

And it's, I don't think it's safe. Yeah, I don't think it's fun or funny at all and how Emily, so she asked, how is your dad? And then she goes, Oh, I shouldn't ask you that. But it's still out there. It's still

weird. 

Isabelle: Yes, you put him in the middle once again, putting kids in the middle like this without considering them. And yeah, and then of course he's going to try to give her information to make her want to get back together with his dad. Like he, it's just a terrible position to put a kid in and it's crazy that they keep doing it without any 

Kira: is in eighth grade. He's going through puberty, [00:14:00] right?

So this kid is struggling so much and nobody seems to care, but I will say I love that scene with Dave and Lindhagen circling back to see if he can bond with Robbie a

little bit. And obviously doesn't know a ton about kids, cause he's talking to him very much maybe he's like a nine or a ten year old. And Robbie is not having it. I love he moves that

seat up so that he's, yeah. So he's looking down at David so I don't think we talk enough about if you make a move and you decide to cheat with a married coworker who has kids. people find out, how are you going to now create a relationship with those kids?

How are you going to create a relationship with her family? When we make decisions like this, we have now set the future up for failure on some level, or at least a ton more obstacles you are the guy that broke up

their parents 

That's true or not, that's what those kids are [00:15:00] going to think.

Isabelle: And he shouldn't have circled back. He's inserting himself. He's too eager. He's not respecting her process. You should never approach somebody's kids in this 

Kira: They didn't even give Emily a process. If we

really look at how much she even talks in this,

Isabelle: I 

Kira: it is very little. It is very little, and I don't think it's purposeful. I don't think it's that we're supposed to be taking that she is quiet. I think it's like they have not given her enough meet here that this is like we said this is really Cal's journey which is too bad because I would have loved to see

more of what she was going through. I would love for these stories that you've made up about their past to be actually verified, confirmed and true.

Isabelle: Me, too. I would have loved to see her get angry at Cal and shouted at him and been like, where were you? Where have you been? I have been trying to reach you for years.

Kira: Yes. I might have actually liked this movie more if she [00:16:00] ever got to speak up and say, No, you don't actually get to just be the victim here. You haven't been here for years. For me, for us, you helped create the situation. That's the movie I want to see. We don't see that movie. We see Cal be a bastard, hit on inappropriately young girls, and then get his wife.

Isabelle: Here's another part that doesn't line up for me, which is people who are at that place of reaching a divorce and have been unhappy for years. It's not typical that the other person in the relationship has been totally happy. And we don't see him reflecting on not just what he didn't deliver for her, but what he has been missing.

Has he missed the connection with her? Are there parts of his life that have been untended to that 

Kira: I have to guess. 

Isabelle: fixed? Yes, right? Like he's not, clearly he's not a happy man with who he is and the [00:17:00] way his life has been. But I feel like that would have been really helpful too, to say we have both been complicit in a way of not, figuring out what's not working about this and making ourselves happier, and she's been the only one raising the alarm.

But we could have seen him be like, she has opened my eyes to the fact that I've been sleepwalking through life and I am not as happy as I could be. And this is the, the event that could blow it all up so we could rebuild it better. But we don't see that.

Kira: they just took and made a grand gesture out of this. We could have seen them repair this. That would have been a movie I want to see. We could have seen them actually try, have dinner meetings, talk it through, fight it through a little bit, but actually fight for this. You making https: otter. ai

Isabelle: And this is tough for me because I love Mia Grandgesture. I am a sucker for a [00:18:00] grandgesture. But watching this, the grandgestures that we see from him building the little mini golf thing for her, for me, it just highlights how far away he is from realizing what is really wrong with his marriage. because 

Kira: really needs to be done here?

Isabelle: she hasn't been mourning the fact that he has not built her a mini golf set in their yard, right?

She has missed him tuning into how she feels, what she needs, talking to her. And once again, he misses it. This grand gesture is an example of how he still doesn't fucking get it. But I do love that scene. But we'll get to that. We'll get to that. Ha. Back at the bar. 

Kira: we're back at the bar. We got Cal and Jacob back at the bar and Cal is supposedly ready to now hit on women. And we meet Kate, who is Marissa Tomei. He offers her a drink. Okay. She's sober. She tries to have a real conversation what do you do and tell me about [00:19:00] yourself?

And he is terrible because he's trying to use these manipulative techniques and not doing it well. He deflects. He calls her boring. He tells her to keep it interesting. And I did write down, lady, if someone asks you questions and after you share says, so you're a teacher with an alcoholic dependency that studied at Oxford, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Yuck. That's actually what he says. Do not go home with that person. Do not like that person. Do not have expectations from that person. Even if he apologizes, you saw enough in that situation to go, this is not a person I want to spend time with.

Isabelle: No, that wasn't cute. That 

Kira: It wasn't. It wasn't.

and what I think we're supposed to take away is all of a sudden gets really honest Oh, I wasn't supposed to say that.

And so then we see her interested. What were you supposed to say?

And, what's honest? And then she grabs onto that one statement of

Isabelle: [00:20:00] Perfect combination of sexy and cute.

Kira: right? Which, isn't even that good of a statement. I think

to make it this big of a part of a movie, but You don't go home with that person. You don't like that person.

You don't give that person your time, your vagina, or anything like that. She like grabbed onto that one statement, and then the next morning, like nothing about this guy. is available. And she's you're going to call me, right? And he answers,

Okay. He doesn't even look at he says it.

So there is nothing about this guy that's healthy, that's available. You

do 

Isabelle: knows 

Kira: want this guy to call you. 

Isabelle: She knows that because when he's being honest, he talks about his divorce and what a mess he is. So what is she thinking that this is somebody who's in a place to follow up with a date after a one night hookup? It's not clear to me what she was thinking she was gonna get out of this, cause he was pretty clearly not ready to be anything 

Kira: At all. 

Isabelle: barely a hookup.

Sounds like it wasn't even a good [00:21:00] hookup. Yeah, that whole thing was very strange, but she's weird. She was a weird character, so I, we can't really explain her in this.

Kira: I wanted more for Marisa Tomei in this character to tell you the absolute truth. It's interesting to me that they actually bill her because she has a very small role and it's not even a very good one. So, I was interested because I think she's fantastic and I, she did a lot, not a lot, but at least a couple of rom coms in the 90s. And I would love to see her in more, but we now move into, now that he has slept with one person,

not even very well, he supposedly has it down because we're now seeing this montage of him, like picking up different women around the bar. And I love that they've made his pickup is just asking normal questions and complimenting women on their clothes.

Isabelle: That's all it takes. That's all it takes, gentlemen.

Kira: I don't know if they're trying to say to us that's how easy it is that women are that [00:22:00] easy, which is sad on a lot of levels, but I was just, I it, yeah, 

Isabelle: It's the fake honesty. It's the fake vulnerability, which he's learned from Jacob of how to seem as though you're engaged and you're attuned and you are being honest when it's all a facade, none of it is actually real and authentic, which is why we don't see growth from him at the end, because he's not actually learning.

the true deep lesson of what it means to be honest and authentic with somebody. He's still not being vulnerable. Not with anybody, not even with Emily really at the end. So like maybe he's got down this, whatever this game plan for how he can pick up women and get them home for a night. But that's nothing.

That's just a skill you learn, right? Riding a bike that says nothing about growth.

Kira: At all. So we're next going to move into the scene that I think is my least favorite scene in the whole entire movie,

which you don't Really? know this yet. 

Isabelle: Oh my gosh, okay, [00:23:00] I'm curious.

Kira: So my least favorite scene in the movie is we see Jessica Anna Lee, she goes by Leo now, Leo Tipton asking this girl at school about how to get older guys to notice you and sleep with you and not see you as a kid.

Isabelle: Yeah, this is flirting with a really bad line. It's,

Kira: After, particularly after, and I'm going to say it this way, particularly after the Me Too movement,

this feels

Super problematic,

super inappropriate, and gross. The fact that we actually see her take naked pictures that she's planning on giving to Cal.

Isabelle: Which is unnecessary, I think. That level of I don't know what to call it even. Exposure. It could have just been like a cutesy love letter or something. And it's different. It's not like, how do I get a 18 year old to notice me? 

Kira: No, how do I get like a 48 year old man

to notice me when I'm 17 years old? And, [00:24:00] I just don't even like this in that movie because it, it makes it okay.

 Think that's true. I think when we're younger, we sometimes crushes on teachers or friends' dads, or things like that. But there's a difference between a really innocent crush and talking to another girl at school about how to get older men to notice you. So I'm already like going, what's this poor girl gone through that she's dating older men? So that, and then going and taking these these naked pictures to give to somebody who is legitimately, what, three times our age.

It's it did not age well for me. It did not feel good to me. It's not funny or cute to me.

 I really honestly wish they would have retooled that character because I just feel like here she has a crush on Cal, she's sending him pictures, she's like having to ward off the constant from Robbie telling how much he loves her and [00:25:00] he's just soulmate and everything else and that we think it's cute.

That's not cute. This kid is awful. highly inappropriate and unboundaried and what is that going to look like in two, three, four years

or as an adult, 

Isabelle: So is she. She's, telling Emily things about how she should be happy she's in this marriage. She's crossing boundaries too. Jessica is. And that's the interesting part of this. 

Kira: but they're kids. 

Isabelle: Well, that's true. Yeah. 

It's a crush gone too far. 

Kira: So, after she tells about how can I get an older man to notice me and want to sleep with me. Okay. Then we see Robbie declaring his love for her again outside with the scarlet letter. Just so much inappropriateness. So much there's nothing wrong with somebody having a crush, but this wasn't a crush.

This was inappropriate. She kept saying, no, I don't like this and he

kept doing it. 

Isabelle: Read the room because you can have a crush on anyone, but if they are not interested, if they have literally told you, I'm uncomfortable with [00:26:00] this, stop it. That's the line. Keep your crush, but keep it quiet. And I think that's the weird part of this whole Jessica, Robbie, Cal. Circle thing of the other person on the other end of the crush has not given any reason to believe that they are interested.

So why are these people going so hard on making this happen and crossing lines and 

Kira: And then why are we thinking that's a comedy,

Isabelle: Yeah, that's a good question.

Kira: And there's a difference between a crush and actions.

We can, we could look at somebody and find them attractive, but it's a different thing when we go after them, when we are placing our attention and time on them, especially when they're asking us not to.

We can find lots of people Even inappropriately attractive, that doesn't mean we have to do anything about it.

And why I don't like this is this movie is making me feel like they're saying it's okay to do this stuff.

Isabelle: I see 

Kira: one person's feelings are so [00:27:00] much, and by the way, pretty unhealthy, that it's okay for them to keep showing up again and again and again.

Isabelle: Well, and that's what stalkers would say, right? It's I just like you so much, I can't and won't stop pursuing you. And that's not okay. It's far from love. 

Kira: far from love. And we confuse it with love. And I just, I'm here for us to talk about. Real love, right? And real love is not somebody yelling David Lindhagen in a bar. 

Not even in the next scene where Cal goes to take care of the yard. So he wakes up from some kind of dream where he believes that David Lindhagen is mowing his wife's lawn. So then the next day he like goes over to take care of the yard. But I wrote, it feels more like ownership than kindness. It feels more like David Lindhagen's not touching my family's yard, I'm gonna do it. Like it doesn't feel like, I wonder if Emily is stressed out.[00:28:00] 

right now because we're separated and she's probably got the kids most of the time. I'm going to go over and take care of the yard. I'm going to do that for her and probably tell her or get her permission first, because that's the kind thing to do. That's not what that was.

Isabelle: Yeah. Oh, I would have loved it if the dream was her being distressed. That the weeds were overgrown and the kids were getting lost in them as they were playing. And, right? 

Kira: They're 13. I don't know how lost they're getting. How,

Isabelle: These are tall. This is like a corn maze situation. Okay.

Kira: Isabel, you and I watched a totally different movie. You and I touched, you watched one that's partially in your head. I watched one on Apple TV, so

Isabelle: We are gonna have to do a poll to see which reality our listeners are living in if 

Kira: I'm sure that yours, I'm pretty sure it's yours I even am laughing at my dislike for that because I think it's hilarious, because I love all of [00:29:00] these actors, and there's definitely comical moments, and soon we're going to get to talk about Hannah and Jacob, which is my favorite part of this movie, because I actually would love to have seen that be the focus, or at least even halftime of this movie.

So, we do see Cal and Robbie next playing catch. And once again, Robbie, the love guru is spilling his tea and is sharing his secrets about love. 

Isabelle: She's your soulmate. 

Kira: You just don't give up on her, right? So I think Cal says that and then Robbie then

turns that around on him, right? What are you teaching your 13 year old son who says that he has decided at 13 that he has a soulmate? This is some fucking Romeo and Juliet bullshit That he has a soulmate and then what are you teaching Cal that you just don't give up on her, right?

He doesn't even know who it is Right? He doesn't say it's Jessica, our 17 year old babysitter. [00:30:00] Cal's so fucking checked out of his family. And then he says to him,

Well, Don't give up.

on her. And then Robbie's well, you gave up on mom. And then he's well, that's different. And I do this is my favorite Robbie moment where he says, You're not a different guy.

You just have different clothes. He sees it. He gets it.

Isabelle: There's a few moments where he cuts to the core with his observations about his dad. Absolutely, yes. I don't even hate the idea of don't give up on something, on the person that you want to be with. What they're missing is, They're not showing up in the right way. Don't give up doesn't mean do the grand gesture, right?

Or harass someone until they give in. It means if you really care about this person, pay attention to how they feel and what they need and what their boundaries are and what it would mean to be in a relationship with them if they even want to be.

Kira: But let's talk a second about what that actually looks like then.

So to me, it's If Cal's really trying to do differently, show up, fight for his marriage, fight for his supposed [00:31:00] soulmate, that means

conversation. That means probably a professional coming in. Definitely with the, when we see how extreme their attachment styles are, they definitely need another person in that work. But it's not like this. It's not getting new jeans and a haircut. It's not

Isabelle: Superficial. These 

Kira: , yeah, it's not being mad at David Lindhagen and instead it's being acknowledging, wow this relationship has stopped working. What do we have to do to get it started? And then most importantly, it's talking to your spouse and saying, I want to fight for this.

Will you fight for it with me? Here's what that looks like for me. How does that look like for you?

Isabelle: Kira, you're speaking to my soul right now because that is the missing message. It's not, you just don't give up until they acquiesce. It's you don't give up together. You have to both want it and be in it and be working for it or it's not going to happen [00:32:00] and it shouldn't happen because if one person is saying no, it's a no.

Kira: I'm not convinced that Emily at the end of this movie is a yes.

I'm not convinced that anything has changed enough for her to go. Yes. I want this over Kevin fucking bacon, or whoever because Julianne Moore and slash Emily is a beautiful middle aged woman and can probably date a lot of different people.

But that's the part of the conversation that we're not having that I think is so important is. Emily's not fighting for this anymore. She's not even trying to fight for it. So if you're trying to fight for this and you're not even having a conversation of, are we both doing that? This still isn't going to work.

You can do everything under the sun, but that other person has to also want to fight for this. This other person also has to show up and have the tough conversations and have awkward conversations that they've clearly either never had or haven't had for years. And like I said, that's [00:33:00] the movie I wanted to see.

I wanted to see them fight for this relationship, but not by getting a makeover,

but by getting through real conversations and tough times and then I would be so in this movie, I would be dreaming with you. But, none of those things happened and this the soulmate shit, because I, at the, I think what makes me judge a movie is at the end of this, what lesson has it taught? And what this lesson taught to me was, if you're either persistent to the point of stalking, if you're completely ignoring all of the real things, you can still have love. And I don't think that's how love and relationships work.

Isabelle: I think, this is so funny, I think that makes total sense to me. I think that you're right. I think all the evidence points to that. And yet,

my twisted brain has turned it around to, the takeaway for me is, relationships do require [00:34:00] work and fighting for them. And so I have just been able to overlook all the problematic parts of it and say, what a good message that 

Kira: Where do you think that they did that, though?

Isabelle: Well, I don't think that they did. That's not the point.

That's the 

Kira: Oh. Oh. Okay.

Isabelle: see it happen 

Kira: Got 

Isabelle: but it should 

Kira: But it should happen. Interesting.

So 

Isabelle: You just

Kira: Oh my gosh. I'm trying to think about other movies that I'm unwell about. Probably Center Stage, I'm unwell about that. I'm probably unwell about the movie Strictly Ballroom. There's movies that, like I said, that don't actually make sense, but I'm like, I'm here for it. I'm here for the romance. I want to see them make out. And you know what? I fucking love this for you though, Isabel. And

I love that we're like talking about this and I find it fascinating because you're literally one of the smartest people about [00:35:00] love that I've ever talked to. And then how love is even mystical and magical sometimes for us.

Isabelle: Yes, yeah, whatever pulls at your heartstrings, it makes all of us idiots at times. That's 

Kira: So the next scene, we finally see they're at the school meeting. So we see Cal and,, Cal and Emily haven't really seen each other, what I'm guessing for maybe a month or two at this point. And I actually loved in this moment that we can see a playful banter that we know has probably been there for a long time, when things were good, that they were funny together, that they enjoyed each other's sense of humor. There was a lightness in that moment, she's got that, oh, wow, Cal, you look great. Um, And Cal just says, I guess I got lazy. I got boring. But to me, so when I talk about, when people say to me You know what? I'm just lazy about [00:36:00] that. I feel like you and I both know things like that aren't true. There's usually an underlying limiting belief or an underlying fear or something else going on there. When we are choosing not to do something that's important to us, and important in our lives, there is a reason for it. And so that was even just a cop out that he's I got lazy, I got boring. I'm like, no, that's not, you got disconnected. You checked the fuck out. I don't know who you've been or where you've been, Cal, but it hasn't been apparent or in this relationship. And then it says, I really feel like they made Emily so quiet and passive. Why isn't she fighting for this more? I literally feel like she. cheated with David Lindhagen to almost fight for this. But then when, they're there in that moment, they just, they did not give her a ton.

Isabelle: didn't. They didn't. Cause,

Kira: you need both people to fight for this. And honestly, Julianne Moore is such a fucking great [00:37:00] actress.

Isabelle: Why didn't they give her more material? Cause even she could say, I want to fight for this and be with you. Like I slept with him because I want to still figure this out with you, but I'm, I don't know how to fight for this anymore, or I don't know if you're willing to fight for this with me.

Like they could have given her anything to say to be a part of this, but I agree his, I guess I got lazy. I got boring. It's an easy cop out. He's like taking responsibility, but not actually

Kira: And

Isabelle: not in the way that 

Kira: thoughtfully, not critically, not in a way that says, here's what happened. This is why I did it. This is how I'm going to do it differently in the future.

Isabelle: He also does not let her answer and explain from her perspective what happened. Could he just give her a minute to speak and be heard, which is all this woman wants is for her husband to listen to her. No he cannot.

Kira: But the whole situation blows up, as we

know, because, of course, the person

who is the teacher that they're going to be talking to

[00:38:00] is no other than Marissa Tomei, who he has slept with, and she is beyond unprofessional. I would like to think that our educators overall would maybe not act like that after one night.

That was a response to, you led me on for six months. Not, we

slept together one night after you were weird and awkward and I still slept with you. But she also, so she's super unprofessional, which I have a lot of teacher friends, so I feel like they would probably be like, oh, I'm going to think that, but I'm not going to act like that in a teacher parent meeting. But why is Cal lying about how he knows the teacher? If he's going to choose this life, fucking own it. If you're going to

choose to be this player, this person that's trying to move on from Emily, own it. Say this is somebody that I temporarily dated or whatever you want to say about it. And then she said, So then she says, I went down on [00:39:00] you

for 45 minutes because you were nervous? Please!

Isabelle: five minutes. she was sober. Ow!

Kira: I am sorry. I am obsessed with my husband and there is never going to be a 45 fucking minute blowjob.

Isabelle: Danny's going to be so disappointed, 

Kira: god. Listen, he knows the drill at this point, but that's also let's look at choices, consequences, and lack of boundaries.

do not go down on somebody for 45 minutes if you don't want to, to me, somebody who's nervous, that's a six minute, seven minute, that's a 45 minutes my jaw hurts! My jaw hurts for her.

Isabelle: Stop.

Kira: And then, he's such a dick because he then, when like his wife is like, Did you sleep with [00:40:00] this woman? He says, She's an alcoholic.

Isabelle: Such an asshole.

Kira: He's such an asshole. He was such a dick. He then throws her under the bus like he was no part of that situation.

Isabelle: Which is 

Kira: And then. 

Isabelle: grown. He's still not willing. 

Kira: Zero! But thank God for that soulmate grand gesture at the end that won Isabelle over a thousand times. 

Isabelle: For

Kira: but he says I wasn't trying to show you because she's boy, you really showed me and then he goes, I wasn't trying to show you.

I was trying to move on, but I think that we both know that's not actually trying to move on if you're moving on is putting your dick at a bunch of women. That's not moving on. That's like trying to find worth in some place when you feel shitty about yourself.

Isabelle: maladaptive coping. You're distracted, you're, if you're orgasming you're getting a nice little rush of neurochemicals that make you feel [00:41:00] good. It's, it is not the healthy way of moving on, for sure. We also heard him say earlier in the movie, She'll rue the day. So this is clearly to get back at her to some degree.

But I, I could believe that people do sleep with people as a way of coping post breakup, post loss, to figure out to regain their sense of value and attractiveness. 

Kira: But this is not a healthy 

Isabelle: It's not a healthy way. It's 

Kira: I also am here to say take a break, what I call either a gaietus or I've heard a

heart sabbatical. But, I'm not a believer in to get over someone you get under someone else. That is not actually going to help the grieving process.

That's not going to help. I don't ultimately think that's very helpful in

Isabelle: No. The part that I wondered with this, which I know I told you is, But would he have moved on in this way if it wasn't for Jacob? He went to the pickup bar, He commented on the girls. Was he actually gonna try to do anything about it? Was this gonna be his coping [00:42:00] strategy if Jacob hadn't come into his life and told him, This is what you need to do.

I don't 

Kira: What do you think?

What do you think he would have 

Isabelle: think so. Him? I think that he would have been a sad man in a bar for a long time and then found some passive way of just hobbling along through the rest of his life. Like he was never gonna approach someone. He didn't even approach someone to talk one on one about David Lindhagen.

He was just gonna scream into the ether, I think.

Kira: I think that he probably would have been a very sad alcoholic, to tell you the absolute truth.

Who hangs out at bars that he shouldn't be hanging out at. Hits on girls who are inappropriate. And if Jessica plays her cards in

that scenario, she could probably be dating him within a couple of years.

So, anyway!

Isabelle: We finally get back to Hannah and Jacob though, which is a nice break from this marriage.

Kira: so we see Anna this scene confused me just because I don't think it was well written, but [00:43:00] we see Anna, she's past the bar, and then all of a sudden, he says, I would like to offer you a full-time job

at 

Isabelle: The law firm.

Kira: law firm that I work at, which.

honestly makes sense and is a kind gesture.

And she's like upset. And then I wrote down, I don't think you should have your engagement or relationship timeline based on whether you pass the bar or not. I don't think that any of that makes sense. We see that she's upset, she's annoyed and she's angry at him, but I don't. Kind of know why I would once again love to if they were going to get engaged like that should be something that

she's a have a conversation with and both people should be there clearly he is not there and he responds I write he responds annoyingly like he doesn't. come off really great, but at least it's honest.

I'm here for the honest people. I actually have no major issue with Jacob because I think that ultimately he is honest in his [00:44:00] dealings

much more than Cal thinks he's honest, but he's a dick.

But she's obviously been holding a lot in because then resentment comes out, anger. She starts pounding people's drinks, , 

Isabelle: Bails. 

Kira: And then bails, 

Isabelle: but none of this makes sense. First of all, if she thought she was so much better than him, like her friend thought, why was she with him? Did she even want to get engaged at this random restaurant with a bunch of coworkers? Was this the beautiful engagement she was hoping for? Why did she think they were at that place if he didn't think they were anywhere near that place in their relationship?

It was so weird. And here's my hot take. So , she drinks these people's drinks, which like very dramatically and it goes okay. I will consider your very nice offer for a job at this law firm and bails, but doesn't break up with him.

Kira: You're right! I never noticed. You're right. You're right.

Isabelle: So, that, 

Kira: You just moved on to my [00:45:00] side. Another person

acting poorly. 

Isabelle: You're right. There was one line missing. I'll consider the offer for the law firm. Our relationship is over, however. And then, we can see what happens next. But she doesn't do that, so

Kira: she just goes and makes out with

Jacob!

In the bar, and let me tell you, that is every woman

wants that scene, right? Where you walk into a guy, right? Exactly.

It's, when she walks in, she

kisses him, I'm happy it was a real moment of when, or she's do you remember me?

Versus let's get out of here, although we met months ago, and he's clearly been seeing many other women. So, I like that at least that felt realistic, that she's do you remember? And he goes, yes. She's do you want to go home with me? And that poor girl that he was talking to

is what just happened here?

But, 

Isabelle: is the fantasy. It's absolutely the fantasy. I've got no comments. It was perfect.

Kira: But is this the time to build a relationship with someone new

when [00:46:00] you have literally just left your boyfriend who didn't

Isabelle: Doesn't know the relationship 

Kira: thought that, yeah, doesn't know the relationship's over. Is probably, looked a little blindsided oh

I thought you'd be excited That you got a job offer, and I'm That seems like a pretty good thing, so, they go home, but I just feel there's been a couple of good drunken moments in my life where I have walked into a situation with confidence, and then like, when the situation went down, I did not have the confidence. I can think of multiple times in my life where I basically was like, we should get out of here.

And then when we got out of here, I'm like, oh fuck, I don't know what to do.

Isabelle: I didn't 

Kira: I couldn't keep it going. Yeah, I think of the couple times that there were people who I had a really good momentary connection with, and when they called me on my [00:47:00] bluff, I was out. 

So I love that she's there and she's I need some drinks to keep this going. And he makes it old fashioned, which is a Wisconsin drink. So that made me Wisconsin proud. I will say, I don't know why Ryan Gosling has a weird East Coast accent some of the times

Isabelle: Wait, what is his accent? That was a question that I needed to ask you. I don't understand his accent. 

Kira: not always there. It's I felt like it was supposed to be East Coast. It's certainly not

Southern California. He's actually Canadian. It was not Canadian. So I just don't know why they

even gave it to them. He's in Los Angeles. Like why would he? just not, have a California accent?

Like it just occasionally he would bring in like a word. And I'm like, why

guys 

Isabelle: she's, drinking both of their drinks. This is a part that I didn't like. She's clearly anxious about this, has not done this before, says she wants to do it, but all of her behavior is indicating she doesn't because she's stalling and she's drinking a ton.

She's had a lot to drink at this point, okay? If [00:48:00] I'm in Jacob's situation and I bring a super hot guy home who says he wants to hook up with me but then suddenly stands across the room from me, drinks both cocktails that I've made, and is avoiding hooking up with me, I don't want to hook up with them anymore.

Like that, that, I don't want to convince someone into doing that. So like why is he still engaging with it?

Kira: you wrote down, this is funny, If a hot guy needs to chug a drink to have sex

with me, I'm out. 

Isabelle: no.

Kira: totally true. If somebody has to put

Isabelle: Steal themselves?

Kira: state.

Isabelle: Let me prepare for this.

Kira: To 

Isabelle: Doesn't feel 

Kira: with me. Yeah, that's not really the way we want to start things off, but I think I loved the scene. And so anyway as a little precursor for some information, almost all of the stuff in bed between Hannah and Jacob was ad libbed. Their connection was so real, they just let them talk.

They gave them some drinks. [00:49:00] They gave those actually booze and then they just talked and laughed and that was a lot of ad lib, which I thought was great. And

Emma was like, I will be in a movie with Ryan Gosling, whenever. And then one movie we will not be discussing on this podcast is La La Land because I cried so hard. In the theater in fucking Costa Rica? No, no less. I was in San Jose, Costa Rica and I cried so hard to that movie, like it was out loud sobbing. Embarrassing is how

Isabelle: no.

Kira: It was

like, 

Isabelle: seen it.

Kira: okay, well we're not talking about it ever. So I can't, I don't think I can watch it again. I don't

Isabelle: All right. We'll leave that one untouched. You need this. We're not going to, we're not going to touch that one.

Kira: But I do love Ryan Gossing in's role and I wrote down a a lesser actor couldn't have made Jacob dislikable because he's not much of a redeeming character at this up until this point,

but I feel for Hannah. I'm a talker during makeouts. I always have been. It's part of my nervousness.

So [00:50:00] she's talking about the pillows and do you

buy shit from Brookstone? And

then she's do you actually have a Massage chair.

But he meets her with that kind of silliness and just also just starts. Thanks.

Isabelle: His walls come down. 

Kira: Yeah.

his walls start coming down and we see some real things and I wrote, I love when they start laughing and sharing in connection. I love this montage and then where, what I think that they're supposed to have is a pivotal moment is, the moment that he says, will you ask me something personal about myself?

Isabelle: This broke my heart too. This man who just wants to be known, who wants someone to get in through his shields and care about who he is and not just how hot his body is, and he finds somebody who will do that for him. And it's a beautiful moment. She asks a great question about his parents, about his mother, what she was like, and he gives an answer that really explains.

why he is the way that he is. This is like privileged person who has seen his parents go through tough times and has decided [00:51:00] he's not going to be, like the victim of somebody else's emotions and he's going to be strong and together and get what he wants, but then he lets someone see him.

And this I know I'm going to, here's what I'll say though. I was going to go into a Kira direction on this, which is I don't love, this is the idea that if you find the right person. that you'll let all your walls down for them and just be like a wonderful ready made partner, which is what we see from him.

He's had all of this emotional availability just held safely inside of him until he met Hannah and she opened it up for him and now he's a perfect boyfriend. That's not likely. I that is the fantasy. It's not going to be the way it goes down. So I still loved it. Loved it. Loved it. But 

Kira: don't even feel like in the way that they've introduced him up until this moment that he would have that kind of self awareness. So when she asks that question, when he's well, you asked me a personal question and then he so eloquently explains his dad and his mom and their [00:52:00] relationship and, their characteristics and in some way like leaning to, and this is why he's maybe the way he is, I'm like, I don't think this guy who's literally spending his life in a bar picking up women actually has that kind of self awareness.

That's Hollywood. That's not, that person. And that person rarely is saying, ask me something personal about myself because they're not there for that.

Isabelle: Yeah, but I do love the montage and it's nostalgic for me of being back in that early phase with somebody where you will spend All night talking about random shit laughing, that like time just doesn't matter and I don't know It's just like very unbounded Bonding that happens early on that's really 

Kira: I do want to point out something that I think also happens that they don't, that doesn't happen here. But I feel like if you're a person who's ever been in a scenario like this, where maybe you've gone home with someone and you ended up connecting with them in a much deeper level than you thought you [00:53:00] would.

A lot of times, specifically for somebody who is an avoidant or is emotionally unavailable, there's going to be a vulnerability hangover. That person usually isn't going to be the person making you eggs or breakfast the next morning. That person usually isn't going to be the one who is perceiving you because there's going to be probably a couple of days of them going,

Isabelle: Oh 

Kira: have I done? I have just let somebody into my weird little wacky world and from what we're seeing, that has not been Jacob's goal. Up until this moment and that's the Hollywood shit. I do hate like you said that because it's Hannah and she's like the perfect match for him he's now gonna let down his walls and he's gonna become this great boyfriend and this like awesome family guy to you know her brother and sister and as her you know, and her mom and all of this shit and I'm like

That's lovely. That's Hollywood. That's writing That's not consistent with what a person who's in that space would really act and that there's a very good [00:54:00] chance that there would be a vulnerability hangover, there would be some rubber banding or pulling away

Before he maybe came back, that feels, that's a realistic part of this that they're not showing, right?

Like, all of a sudden they're just in love, and they're picking up wine two weeks later.

Isabelle: Yes, and they seem so happy. You know what should have happened? There should have been a parallel process where she goes to Josh Groban and says, I want to break up. I slept with Jacob. whatever his last name is and see how that would have played out so differently between the two of them because that's what happened.

We don't see her tell Josh. Hopefully at some point she breaks up with him. Maybe to this day he still thinks that they're dating. Josh Groban is waiting for Hannah. But that would have been an interesting thing to see play out. It didn't happen so we can't talk about it. But.

Kira: Very much. Very much. So I do have to say this, and I actually say it twice because it comes up for me twice, which is, how come [00:55:00] Cal is okay with being disgusting and objectifying women with Jacob? Because even after he's maybe going after his wife and things like that, he still leaves a message for Jacob going, I imagine you under a pile of women.

Isabelle: Suffocating.

Kira: Yes. So, why is that okay, Cal? And then when you find out that he's dating your daughter, it's not okay. Why is objectifying women okay? Unless it's your daughter or your wife. 

Isabelle: It's okay for him to do. But then when he sees Jacob as a part of his family, he's pissed about it. Teach Robbie to objectify women. He'll love that. Well yeah, Jacob taught you how to objectify women, Cal, and you loved it. 

Kira: So next we see Emily and David at dinner. I actually thought this was a weird scene. I thought it was a not well edited scene. I didn't actually know exactly what to take away from it. I was going to ask you. So, And he asked the question, which is [00:56:00] what did you want to be when you grew up?

Exactly what we talked about earlier here. And she said, I wanted to be a ballerina, which a lot of, I think young women did. And then he says, I love that for you. I'll take you to the ballet. And she said, you will. And he's well, I'll take you and I'll drop you off and then pick you up and then we'll go watch sports or something.

Isabelle: I thought he was being sarcastic. 

Kira: But it's. 

Isabelle: he was being serious? Cause that would be really weird. I thought he was like, being like, Oh, haha. But no, 

Kira: That's what I'm saying. It was edited weird because

I didn't, I watched the scene twice and I was like, I still don't actually know if he's trying to be funny, if he's actually like people pleasing her, if what's actually going on here. So they have that moment and then they cut to. Emily then being home later, but Cal's like watching her outside their house, so

he's like watching his family, which I'm sure you think is romantic, I think

Isabelle: oh my God, we're going to [00:57:00] be far apart on this one too. I thought it was so romantic. He's taking care of the yard, which is his own weird thing, but when he watches her as she calls him and realizes that she's making up a reason to call and talk to him and he plays along with it as if she needs to relight their pilot light.

What is happening? I was all up about it. I thought it was so sweet and she's reaching out and he's responding and

Kira: But it felt so weird, once again it felt like a weird power dynamic, that he's getting to watch her and fully understand what the situation is, and I don't think it's bad but Once again, he's watching from the yard versus knocking on the door and just saying, you know, Just missed everybody.

Can I just come in for a half an hour and Tuck the kids in tonight or like it just

all feels So I don't know if it's just contrived, but it just feels unhealthy

So next we come. yeah, 

Isabelle: say that it's healthy I won't say that it's like a healthy or the best way to do it But I do feel [00:58:00] like they're just looking for ways to connect and they don't they can't do it directly anymore

Kira: Then,

we see it what I think is probably like one of the best scenes in this which is just funny and chaos. But all of a sudden after that call or whatever that seems to give Cal the thumbs up or okay to go after or fight for his marriage. And so, we see this buildup where he's going to put in what was it, miniature golf in the backyard. He gets the kids involved. Once again, that feels unboundaried because why would you not say, let's go out on a date? Can I take you out for dinner one night? Or can I take you somewhere that, would be private and nice that we can talk?

Why bring the kids? Cause then if she's not as open and as accepting.

Isabelle: the kids are gonna hold that against her. It feels manipulative to 

Kira: It feels super exactly, but we see this whole scene just happen because We see Jessica's dad, see the photo. So he's [00:59:00] getting up to go talk to Cal. And I just want to mention that he doesn't talk to her at all. He doesn't ask the questions. He doesn't say, what are these? What's happening here?

I need the information immediately. He instead, once again, we have so much male ego and ownership in this movie, he up, he totally runs out of the house just because begging him to stop so she can talk to him. He does it. He gets in the car. She gets in the car. Somebody could have easily had an accident.

This was just

all so Unsafe And then I wrote down, but why does Ryan have an East Coast accent? And then, and then, so we see it.

Emily comes in, then we have Hannah show up with Jacob

and then poor exactly, and then David Lindhagen shows up, and I'm like, once again, David, not great with the timing but then he, Cal, I think behaves terribly in this situation, so,

Isabelle: This is where 

Kira: David shows up and, Jacob shows up [01:00:00] and, he's a jerk and these poor kids are watching. And then at the end of it, after this fight and everything else, Cal's takeaway from the situation was, she's all yours, David.

That's a big fuck you to Cal, because you know what?

She is not anybody's. She is not anybody's. 

Emily is Emily's. And Emily will choose if she wants to have a relationship with David. She'll choose if she wants to have a relationship with Cal.

But the men ownership, in this movie pisses me the fuck off.

Isabelle: Yes, like he, he had dibs on Emily, but he's passing it off now, and David gets to have dibs on her. Unless he decides to pass on Emily too. I totally agree. 

Kira: Because Emily's just there to be chosen, 

Isabelle: yeah, Cal sucks at parenting again here. The way he treats Hannah is Unex I couldn't believe how he spoke to her. Because she chose to be with Jacob. Telling her what she can and can't do in terms of dating someone. More of this [01:01:00] ownership control that's not okay. And then saying he like won't speak to her because of her choice.

Cal lost me. I can make no excuses for Cal from this point onward.

Kira: You've just made me very happy. And, we now see this montage scene of kind of the fallout. Everybody, upset since, the backyard fight and everything. Jacob comes to see Cal's drowning himself in a drink again. But Jacob talks about loving Hannah and boy, do I wish that the scene felt better for me, but this is what he says.

I'm in love with her. I love her. I don't know what I was doing before this. It's not something I can really stop. Please. Yes, you can. It's not something that I wanted.

Isabelle: Uh oh,

Kira: In love and I thought that the way that they're behaving and what they were doing appeared pathetic. And let me just say this, that's not, just like you don't want to have to [01:02:00] see a guy slam a drink to have sex with you, I don't want to hear somebody say, I don't actually even like love, I don't want to be in love, I can't help myself.

Isabelle: I'm stuck in this with your 

Kira: I'm stuck in this with your daughter. I don't want to be in it. That's not going to get through that power struggle phase.

That's not going to get you past the obsessive love phase. That once again actually does line up with his behavior of an avoidant who believes temporarily that he's in love until real things show up.

And I just, that's not love. And I hate when we act like we can't control ourselves. That's an excuse that we've allowed, particularly for men, for a really long time that doesn't make this feel good.

Isabelle: Yeah, 

Kira: Be there, Jacob. Choose her.

Choose to do the work with her, not just this fun, exciting moment that you're letting somebody see you temporarily.

And then, Cal says, Hannah, she's too good for [01:03:00] you. She's too good for you. I'm never going to be okay with this. And That to me is another fuck you because Hannah gets to decide who she gets to be with.

Isabelle: Yes, she does!

Kira: information and let her choose. She is a grown ass woman.

So why, this is once again like a male ownership thing to me.

Like they're discussing her like she's a thing.

Isabelle: That 

Kira: And Cal owns her, and now Jacob wants her, and she doesn't even get a part of this conversation. And

just, all of that just continues to make this feel gross to me. But we're getting to really the final and my other least favorite scene, the graduation. So we see Robbie is announced to

make a speech, how conveniently, because he's salutatorian. How is that happening when he's getting up and shouting love as an asshole 17 times in a moment, or that we never see this kid study one time.[01:04:00] 

Isabelle: None of it makes sense, but of course, he's the one who's giving a speech, and I love what you wrote of Did anyone check his speech? There was no oversight here because he gets up there and starts a really weird speech that's not about graduating, really, it's about growing up and how love doesn't exist.

Totally off topic, totally, again, inappropriate for the setting and weird. All about the soulmates, yadda. And then this is what prompts Cal to stand up because he sees the damage. This is the damage he's done to his child. That he made his child not believe in soulmates. That's the one wrong thing he's done as a parent.

So he finally stands up and his message is nice which is besides the soulmate part You fight for the people that you love and it might not work out between me and your mom, but I love her and want to try, essentially, right? That's a fine message, but it doesn't wrap things up not well 

Kira: And that wasn't the [01:05:00] message, because at the end of that speech it's, because when you find the one, you never give up. That is such

toxic bullshit. What are we teaching people through these movies?

Isabelle: Yeah 

Kira: And to me, I'm also seeing women who are struggling in their relationship, that giving them some kind of permission to hold on to something that's not working, because we've been so ingrained with, if you

make that commitment, you stay.

They're the one. They're your soulmate. You fight for it, even if they're not fighting with you, even if they're treating you terribly. I just, I actually wrote that this scene makes my ass twitch. It makes me so frustrated. And and then he says, I have loved her even when I hated her. Married couples would get this one. I don't hate Danny. I never hate Danny. Never. I get frustrated. I'm sometimes disappointed by something that happened, but I never hate him. And I'm just so sick of even Hollywood [01:06:00] letting married couples know Oh yeah. You can love your spouse and hate them at the same time. Married couples get that, don't they?

And listen, I understand. I met Danny later in life. We don't have children. There are obstacles we don't have in our way, but I'm just so sick of that narrative. I'm so sick of the narrative that your marriage comes with just hating your partner half the time.

Isabelle: Well, and I think that's what we both hate about the enemies to lovers thing, too, of that hate is transformed into love or is a part of love when it does not have to be. Hate is such a specific word to use here. Also, did he ever hate her? I don't know if he has enough feelings towards her to hate her.

Kira: Hates David Lin Hogan. 

Isabelle: That's right, poor David Lindhagen.

Kira: But, the final like why he gets up. So I wrote, did no one check this kid's speech? Where are the parents? Why would a teacher be once he's going? Love sucks. There's no such thing as one true [01:07:00] love. He's making these statements I feel like a teacher would be like, Okay, thank you, Robbie,

for your very, thoughtful speech.

Let's move on to the next kid whose, hopefully, parents have checked the speech. I think just like the unregulated ridiculousness of Robby just makes me so much more frustrated at Cal and Emily that they're just letting this kid

walk around with an open wound

and nobody's helping him.

Nobody is helping him. 

Isabelle: Emily doesn't intervene and help 

Kira: Yeah! Why isn't somebody

Isabelle: I don't know. And this is another grand gesture that misses the point. He stands up in front of the whole school and professes his love for Emily and gives his take on soulmates, yada. Once again, it's is this in any way connecting with Emily?

Does he know why she's been unhappy? No, he has no more information. He's just saying the same thing in a different way. No growth, publicly, which is so romantic. 

Kira: Where we [01:08:00] see Marisa Tomei, the teacher, then

Isabelle: Flip them off.

Kira: again, like, why? Because you slept with him one night. Have I hate ridiculous reactions.

That's not a reaction you have. You go oh man, but she was sober the whole time. She just ignored information.

So, there's a couple, we're not going into obviously good, worst and best love lessons because

Isabelle: We've covered 

Kira: thing is about all the love lessons. 

But, did you have a favorite moment or quote? I actually did. Surprisingly. So, there was a couple of times, especially. That I would see, I think that we're almost improv'd. That made me laugh. And there was one point where Jacob says, I met this girl the other night and she was heckling me the whole time we're doing it. Like I was with the two guys from the Muppet show. And I just thought that scene was funny. Cause then, so then Cal's Oh, you mean, I'm forgetting what the names are right now.

But she's like, why are you frowning? Why [01:09:00] aren't you smiling? Is it so hard to sleep with me? And it was just, I thought that was a funny scene.

What about you? 

Isabelle: I laughed out loud, like really belly laugh. Which is terrible. The fight scene when all the men are fighting, because I hate the message that like men should handle their feelings by fighting with each other and that we'll figure it out. Even what the police officer says is terrible. It's okay to fight, just keep it inside, keep it in the family.

No, to all of that. But when they are attacking each other and Cal says, stay away from my daughter. And then his friend says, stay away from my daughter. And David Linhagen jumps into the fray and was like, I don't even know you. I don't know why. I just lost it. It was because it was David Lindhagen.

He was just, it was so ridiculous. I can't tell you why it got to me, but it did.

Kira: You have a spell cast on you.

This movie! 

Isabelle: something about this film that's allowing me to overlook all the bad stuff.

[01:10:00] 

Kira: So the next question I have here, which we like to talk about, is anyone emotionally unavailable? Which I think the better question is anybody emotionally available?

And you wrote, I'm going to quote you on this, you wrote, Cal isn't available until the end, and then I wrote, but why is he now emotionally available?

Isabelle: It's because of the power, the delusional power of belief that I just believe that he's now available because I want him to be. He's going to do the work, Kira, and he's going to be, I don't know, probably not. I don't know.

Kira: and I think that they're trying to tell us that Jacob is now emotionally available, but I call bullshit on that

because we don't actually see growth. We see some connection, but what happens [01:11:00] when their first fight, what happens when something real comes up? I just, we don't change that easily.

He was a guarded, avoided mess for a long time, just because Hannah, who let me tell you, Emma Stone is about the cutest thing that ever

existed in this movie, even though she is the best that's not enough.

That's not enough. 

Isabelle: Yeah. And I think we could say maybe Hannah's available. But I can't say anybody else with certainty is ready to be in a real relationship. Has done enough work. No.

Kira: What about favorite characters to you?

Isabelle: Favorite characters?

Kira: Yes.

Isabelle: All of them?

Kira: Oh,

Isabelle: I know! Not Cal! Okay, I love Hannah and Jacob. I just, every piece 

Kira: I do too! I would have actually loved to see that movie.

And I would have loved to see them fight and repair.

I would have loved to see that growth that made me go, they are going to make it at the end. That they will [01:12:00] fight for this. That there's enough of a connection and a match here. And he has done enough growth and healing, I guess with her, because we don't see him talking to anybody. And I doesn't feel like that's his jam. I think that they're great characters. But I would have loved to see the movie between Jacob and Hannah.

Because To me that had some hope that had some promise that brought the ROM into the calm for me

in a way that I don't think that cow is funny

or romantic in any way.

Isabelle: What about when he said, cocktail servant, when he was mad at that too?

Kira: And and it just shows you right there. He is emotionally unregulated. He cannot control what even comes out of his

mouth, 

Isabelle: And then he says right after, sorry 

Kira: Oh, I'm so sorry. Yeah I'm sorry. That was a dick thing to say, but he still said it.

And that's the thing. That's why I don't believe there's enough growth here that this is going to all of a sudden work because he was not even talking to his own wife and kids until the graduation [01:13:00] ceremony.

Isabelle: Which is insane. The way that he would just show up at school and watch Robbie walk by, but not say anything, and if Robbie didn't initiate contact, he wouldn't try, he has still not learned his lesson. No. 

Kira: aren't parents in this. They're not parents. questionably adults. these

kids. Yeah. 

Isabelle: first met, still acting that way.

Kira: Absolutely. 

Let me get into some of the fun facts and trivia. So this film was originally called Untitled Marital Crisis Comedy. And they gave away a free iPad to the cast and crew because they had a hard time coming up with this name.

And I guess Steve Carell never liked this name. 

 The romantic, dirty dancing lived between Gosling and Stone wasn't actually in the script. Gosling, who used to do ballet, had the idea and they added it in. So he used to dance. [01:14:00] Um,

Isabelle: This lift, and if I can find the picture, we should include it because it's hilarious.

Kira: to you or to each other?

Isabelle: To each other. My husband lifted my brother.

 So here is something I think that is very fascinating. So while rehearsing for the scene where he lifted her she did not know she had a phobia of being lifted until he did it and she had a full on meltdown. Which Gosling described as like a possum falling out of a tree and trying to scratch your eyes out. Afterwards she ran away crying and had to lie in bed and watch Labyrinth for hours to calm her down. actually when she was younger was in gymnastics and had fallen and broke both of her arms and did not know.

Kira: That's pretty cool. that, that this was gonna be a problem. So they actually had to use a double to do this scene. So, that was fascinating to me, but yeah her screams of, like, when he, were real, I think [01:15:00] they kept some of those in there. And then, in real life, Kevin Bacon and Ryan Gosling are distant cousins.

Isabelle: What?

Kira: was fun. Yes!

Isabelle: What?

Kira: Yes.

And the one thing I will say is this is a star studded cast. This film cast includes three Oscar winners and two Oscar nominees. This is a really top cast. And then Ryan Gosling's character offers Steve Carell's, which I thought this was interesting, that he's eating a Sbarro pizza slice at the mall, right?

Because I was 

Isabelle: on 

Kira: not fitting to exactly, but it's actually a joke or reference to The Office. When Michael Scott says his favorite New York pizza joint is Sbarro's. So they actually threw that

in as a little, an Easter egg. to the office. I told you this last night, but Gosling has admitted that he thought the filmmakers probably used some photoshopped pictures.

Chop to perfect his abs

because they are quite [01:16:00] stunning and you

know what like I'm glad he admitted that I'm glad he's

Ah, that may not be a hundred percent me. Like it was mostly him, right? And then Gosselin Stone had a natural chemistry and for that scene where they're in bed all night talking the filmmakers threw away the script Gave them some drinks and let them improvise the whole thing and that they loved working together, and that she hopes that they work together a bunch and become a legendary pairing like Katherine Hepburn and Spencer Tracy.

Isabelle: do we.

Kira: So do we.

Isabelle: would love 

Kira: So do we. 

So, would they last?

Isabelle: Obviously, I can't be honest about this because I'm too in love with this film. Honestly, however, Cal and Emily, I don't think will make it. We have not seen any evidence that they're addressing the underlying issues in their marriage. This 

Kira: Nothing has actually changed

throughout this, nothing's actually 

Isabelle: No. And the idea of a soulmate being enough, we have talked extensively about, is not true.

So I don't think they'll make it. Jacob and Hannah, I have to believe, make it. I, cause I need [01:17:00] that. Kira. So don't take that 

Kira: it? Okay, so universe, we believe I would like to think that they make it too, I would love to think that. I I feel that Cal and Emily, once again, I have actually seen him, I think, hurt the relationship more than help through all of this. So that, as far as Jacob and Hannah, I, gosh, I hope so, right?

It's very likable. I think that, Emma Stone and Ryan Gosling have great chemistry. This was their second movie together. They did a third. I hope they do a lot more. But I legitimately cannot believe that he could be that kind of unhealed and that, unavailable and just flip that.

That doesn't literally make sense unless it's a Hollywood script.

So what are our ratings?

Isabelle: You go first.

Kira: Well, I gave for overall tacos a two.

Isabelle: Oh my gosh.

Kira: I feel like that was generous. And same for [01:18:00] love lesson tacos. I gave that also to because honestly, the love lessons were not great. That's why, I don't buy that anybody really changed. I don't buy that there was a deep love happening or potential of that in either of these relationships. And the two is me because I really liked the Jacob Hanna scenario, and I love that scene with the dirty dancing lift, and she's adorable in every fucking way in this movie, and Ryan Gosling's fun as hell, and, like I said, I would have watched that instead of Cal being an angry jerk at a bar

half the time, I would have really loved that movie.

What about you, Isabelle?

Isabelle: I can't even tell you. Obviously I'm, this has tapped into my blind romantic feelings. 

Kira: You don't have to apologize for it. you can be whoever you need to be right now. 

Isabelle: overall tacos, five best movie ever. Want to watch it again after we're done recording this. I [01:19:00] cannot explain it. I just love, love, love this movie. I just love it. This 

Kira: I look forward. I look forward to a time where I have a blind love for a movie so that you can then tease me a little

Isabelle: It's going to happen, 

Kira: it will. will. 

Isabelle: This is going to be hard. Love lesson tacos. I also gave it five. Which I can try to 

Kira: quickly explain, justify.

and explain that

Isabelle: Because I think it's so real. That for me, that the lessons in it, there's a lot of bad things that happen, and there's a lot of things, like the soulmate idea, that I think is not good.

But I think there is a lot of realness to watching people struggle in their relationships and making space for people struggling in unhelpful, even bad ways of coping through drinking and sleeping around, right? Or people act in ways that are really believable and I have seen people do. And I feel like that it's good to normalize that people are messy and go about life [01:20:00] messily.

But obviously I'm just making up reasons to give it five love lesson tacos because I love this movie.

Kira: you absolutely are because there's very little redeeming qualities in this movie. But hey, that's rom coms, right? And we're the first ones to say sometimes these are absolutely ridiculous and sometimes we still just love them. And I love that you love this movie, and honestly it's un It's surprising you love this movie, and I think it's okay also that I don't love this movie.

I think we get to resonate or relate to different things, and I hear all the things you're saying, and you hear all the things, and it's okay that we don't love that.

Isabelle: This is the important part though, is watch these movies critically because I agree with everything you're saying. All those lessons and those takeaways are absolutely right and you can still really enjoy a movie at the end of the day even if it has a ton of bad messages and you know there's parts of it that are totally unrealistic and not even [01:21:00] healthy.

Kira: we sure can. So, so I'm sure you have a positive takeaway. What's your positive takeaway from this?

Isabelle: Oh God, I know. My positive takeaway is that good relationships can have really bad times. Like we don't think Cal and Emily are going to figure it out and get back together, but many marriages do. Go through infidelity, go through separations, go through moving out. Many bad things can happen where one or both people do want to end the relationship and there can be another side to it.

And so while I believe fighting for the reason of it's your soulmate, so you don't give up is the wrong message, I think putting in the work during those terrible times, if you want to be with that person, is the right message. Which I've obviously twisted because that's not what the movie said, but that's what I want to take away from it.

And that's part of my delusion. Okay,

Kira: I don't have any [01:22:00] positive takeaways. I'm sorry. The positive takeaway from this movie to me is that I will watch anything that Emma Stone and Ryan Gosling is in moving forward.

I think that they are a natural combo on the screen and knowing that they improv that. Like I, I would watch that movie and versions of that movie. In a heartbeat. Absolutely. Absolutely. 

I think I sound terrible though. I

Isabelle: this is my favorite episode yet! 

Kira: Think I sound angry. Do I sound angry?

Isabelle: no, not at all. Not at all. I think it actually is really humorous. The way that you like challenge my delusions is funny. And I think that you're right. Like messaging wise, I'm so blind to this movie. Like it's good that you're here saying, Oh, that's not a good message though.

Cause you're like, that makes sense. But it's not healthy. Isabel.[01:23:00] 

Kira: my gosh. So I feel like this episode is either people are going to love it or

Isabelle: I'll be like, I'm out. I think they'll love it. I gotta say, but we'll see. 

 Okay, guys, that's it for today. 

Isabelle: If you liked this, subscribe or follow on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favorite podcast platform.

Kira: And if you loved it, and we sure hope you did, please leave a review. You can also get resources, show notes, and join the rom com community at romcomrescue. com. 

USB/XLR Dynamic Microphone-3: Remember to join us next week when we watch brand new 2024. The idea of you. With Anne Hathaway and Nicholas Galaxian. You can watch it right now on Amazon prime.

Isabelle: Until next week, create your own Happily .

Ever After. [01:24:00] Kira, 

Kira: I think I sound terrible though. I

Isabelle: this is my favorite episode yet! [01:25:00]