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Rom-Com Rescue
A Couples Therapist and a Dating Coach Walk Into a Podcast…
Love rom-coms but find yourself screaming at the screen? So do we. Rom-Com Rescue is the podcast where couples therapist Dr. Isabelle Morley and healthy dating educator Kira Sabin break down your favorite romantic comedies—the good, the bad, and the wildly unrealistic.
We’re here to celebrate the heart-fluttering moments, call out red and green flags, and offer real-life dating and relationship wisdom along the way.
Is that grand gesture actually love-bombing? Is the broody love interest just emotionally unavailable? Should they really have ended up together—or was the best friend the right choice all along? We’re unpacking it all with humor, heart, and a little tough love....because we believe you can create your own happily ever after.
Rom-Com Rescue
Crazy Stupid Love - Part 1
Any takeaways from this episode?
Bad pickup lines, toxic masculinity, inappropriate crushes, The Dirty Dancing Lift and David Lindhagen. That's right, this week we are talking about 2011 rom com Crazy Stupid Love with Steve Carell, Julianne Moore, Ryan Gosling, and Emma Stone.
Come talk with us about your favorite rom-coms on instagram, tiktok, & youtube and Bluesky!
Get show notes, transcripts, and more information on at Rom-ComRescue.com
Rom-Com Rescue Crazy Stupid Love Part 1
Isabelle
0:00
Bad pickup lines, toxic masculinity, inappropriate crushes. That Dirty Dancing lift and David Lynn Hogan. That's right. This week we are talking about 2011 rom com crazy Stupid Love with Steve Carell, Julianne Moore, Ryan Gosling, and Emma Stone.
Kira
0:21
Welcome to the ROM Com Rescue Podcast, a brand new podcast where we bring the love and life lessons from your favorite rom coms. I'm Kira Sabin, I'm a healthy dating educator, a certified coach, and a positive psychology practitioner. But more importantly, I spend my days teaching the skills and mindsets of dating.
Isabelle
0:38
And I'm Doctor Isabel Morley. I'm a licensed clinical psychologist and an EFT certified couples therapist, and I help couples have the happiest, healthiest relationship possible. Join us weekly as we break down the best love lessons from your favorite rom coms, so we can all get into the best relationships possible because we believe that we create our own happily ever after.
Kira
1:08
Well. Hello everybody. We are so excited you're here for this not single, but double episode of crazy, Stupid Love because we thought there was so much meat to this movie. And by the way, we have very different opinions on this one, so we want to turn it into a double episode so we can really, really dig in. But before we do that, let's get to our weekly fun fact, and I'm going to ask you, I don't know what Isabelle is going to say. She doesn't know what I'm going to say. But the question is one I actually love to ask on a first or second date, which is what did you want to be when you grow up?
Isabelle
1:49
I love this question. It brings me back. I was one of the many people who wanted to be an actor.
Kira
1:57
Were you really? Yes. And the best part of it is I don't have a good reason why I wasn't, as I wasn't a very good actor in school plays. I wasn't an especially good singer. But there was something about the way that it looked that was appealing, not even the celebrity of it. They didn't care about the money. Celebrity. I was too young to even care about that. But it was like the idea that you could play all these different people and have that confidence. It's that confidence that I really loved the idea of, and I made no progress towards it. As you can tell, I didn't pursue it at all. Not in the slightest.
Isabelle
2:36
But that's what I wanted to be.
Kira
2:39
That's 1s random, amazing and surprising and everything else because I don't. I usually think actors are people who are just really out there and outgoing and a little bit dramatic, like young Keira was, and also a little lover of the attention, which are not things I necessarily think about,
Isabelle
3:02
you know, and I think part of it is I had a big family, I had three siblings, so I liked the idea of getting attention, but I I'm on the quieter side. I'm not very good at asking for it and trying to grab it. So this was just an easy way to get attention in a way that made sense. And everybody agrees to pay attention to actors when they're on the screen. So I think it was probably meeting that need, 1s but it didn't work out.
Kira
3:27
I love that for you.
Isabelle
3:29
What about you? What did little Chiara want to be when she
Kira
3:32
grew up? Little Chiara wanted to be on Broadway. I wanted to sing on Broadway. May
Isabelle
3:37
we stop it? We could have been working together in a whole different career. This is true. We would probably have to be much more skilled and talented to be doing
Kira
3:49
those things.
Isabelle
3:51
Should we sing our entire episode? I'm just wondering if we should. No, we should not. But I loved music. In fact, it's something I've been getting back to. We don't need to delve deep into my fixed mindset about music, but I grew up in a small town in Wisconsin, and I was a big fish in a small pond, so I love to sing. When I was a kid and a teenager, and I actually went to. A school that was specifically a music school in Iowa called Luther College for music. And what I. You probably don't know this about me. Yes, I originally went there for music to sing, and I've actually done podcast episodes about how my fixed mindset really sabotaged me, and I ended up moving to communications by my sophomore year. I also, as a backup, wanted to be a music teacher. Both of my parents were teachers. Most of my grandparents were teachers. I am from an educator family, and it's funny because both my sister and I are educators without being traditional teachers. So now I really educate people on skills and mindsets of dating and things like that. And she actually was just on Top Chef, which is a little crazy. I don't even know if you saw that, but that's a whole story about I know that's a whole story, but Top Chef came here to Wisconsin. I'm a humongous Top Chef fan. Humongous since the beginning. Watch them a second round once Danny and I started dating because we watch them together. So when they said they were coming to Wisconsin and nothing ever comes to Wisconsin, really nothing. Oh, so this was such a big moment. And when they announced it, I posted on Facebook, listen, Top Chef has just said they're coming to Wisconsin. This is one of my all time favorite TV shows. If anybody hears anything because sometimes they do local events, please let me know. I would love to be a part of this in some way. And although I was able to watch online and see some different things online, I wasn't able to see any tapings and I was really bummed about it. And so, lo and behold, to my shock, a couple of weeks ago, I'm watching the end of an episode and my sister, my own flesh and blood. There's not 17 of us. There's just two of us. I am the youngest. She is the oldest, was on my favorite TV show, and she had to sign an NDA so she couldn't tell me. And I was like, is blood not thicker than NDAs? True. Short answer no. And so my sister, if you guys do watch Top Chef and you watch the Frank Lloyd Wright episode, my sister talked on there for 4 or 5 minutes. So
Kira
6:45
that was an interesting I was so angry at her for about four minutes.
Isabelle
6:49
Right. Obviously your sisterhood relationship, it's over. This is unforgivable. This kind of action. But. Well,
Kira
6:56
it was kind of funny. So she doesn't watch Top Chef, by the way. She barely knew about it. But almost everybody I know is watching this season in the area because it's in Wisconsin. Right. And so she's like, oh, hey, make sure that you watch the preview at the end of this episode. And I'm sitting here going, is my sister schooling me on Top Chef? I don't think so. I already know they're in Madison next week. I already know this off. Who does she think she is?
Isabelle
7:23
Wait, what? It's on air. She can tell you
Kira
7:27
that. So I screamed when I saw her on that preview, I screamed. I was swearing at the top of my lungs. I do believe that Danny took a short video because he was laughing at me hysterically. And then I called her up and I'm like, what the fuck? Are you fucking kidding me? What the fuck? Like, how is my sister on my one of my favorite TV shows? And the thing is, is I had been scrounging through with some acquaintances. Hey, I saw you were a judge. Like, how was your experience and stuff? And nobody got back to me and my own sister.
Isabelle
8:02
You should have asked me. You know, I've got some ties into the reality TV world I could have seen of somebody we know through. You can connect Top
Kira
8:10
Chef connections.
Isabelle
8:12
How did we get to this from you wanting to be on Broadway?
Kira
8:15
I don't know, I got a feeling I'm going to be cutting a bunch of
Isabelle
8:17
that out. Wait. Can you sing? Well, this is something that I don't know about you.
Kira
8:21
I used to be able to sing. Well,
Isabelle
8:23
you still can. You need a lot of
Kira
8:25
for us. But you know what? A lot of times the way that we talk about music is somebody is talented or they're not. But Danny's actually also a classically trained musician, and neither of us practice. And your skill set starts to go downhill when you don't practice. So I'm a I'm a decent singer. I can definitely hold a tune. If I actually started trying and practicing, I could probably get my voice to back to where it was, but.
Isabelle
8:51
Well, I'll tell you this. I love singing and I have a decent enough voice. My my oldest daughter, who's four today. It's her birthday today. Yay! Whenever I sing, whenever I sing any song, she always looks at me and gets really upset and says, mom, please stop singing. It makes me sad.
Kira
9:10
And.
Isabelle
9:12
Every time, every time she starts like nearly crying because she thinks it just makes her sad.
Kira
9:20
So you're being shamed by your own daughter,
Isabelle
9:24
I know. Is it
Kira
9:25
because, like, you're not Idina menzel?
Isabelle
9:29
That's probably a big part of it. Like you're
Kira
9:31
not frozen talented. Yeah, yeah, that's probably it. That's the bar. And let me tell you, I'm not at that level, so.
Isabelle
9:41
There goes our future.
Kira
9:43
I know we're in musicals. Yeah, so I wanted to be on Broadway, but, like, kind of the backup plan was being a music teacher. And then my parents talked me out of education. Being who you are,
Isabelle
9:54
educating people. And
Kira
9:55
here I am doing it in a much, much different way. But let's get into this movie. And as we mentioned, guys, we're doing this episode a little bit different. 1s Because there's so much information as you're watching it. I was like texting Isabel. The first 10 to 15 minutes alone could be an episode. There's so much that happens between
Isabelle
10:21
I would make a whole other podcast just about this movie, you know, that I would talk about this movie every single week for the rest of my life. So people are lucky that it's only two episodes.
Kira
10:33
Wow. Okay. This is nuts. Okay. You are hilarious. We were talking briefly before we started recording. How? Thank goodness this episode is not representing a bad boy that you're trying to date, because we would have a lot of problems because I think this movie is. 1s Messy. That is the kind way I will say it. It is extremely messy, but it triggers some of my shit and we'll talk about it. But a couple things that are different about today. First of all, this is going to be a double episode. Second thing is that we are not doing it the normal way, where we break it into chunks of best love lessons, worst love lessons, deep dive. We're going to chronologically go through it because there was so much good stuff. We didn't want to miss things, and we knew we would if we went through it that way. So we're actually going to be walking you guys through the movie, commenting on what we saw, what stood out to us and everything else. And we hope you like it. And if you do like this format, let us know, because we're still learning, we're still figuring this out. But now that I know that you want to be an actor and I want to be on Broadway, wow. What's next for Kyra and Isabelle, right? Who knows
Isabelle
11:50
our own rom com, I'd say.
Kira
11:53
Oh my God, I don't even know what to say about that. So let's talk a little bit about first impressions. And you've already gotten some basic first impressions that Isabelle fucking loves this movie. Keira fucking hates this movie. That is literally the second time watching it. Yesterday I was like, this is poking my own eyes out with my thumb. It was painful. Let's talk about it. First impressions go ahead. Let's bring the happiness before I bring down the hammer. We are so far apart on this movie. It makes me so happy because we can see what each other is saying and we feel so differently about it. I loved this movie when I saw it when it came out. I've seen it since then. I've loved it every time, and I was so nervous that watching it for this, I would have a more critical eye. I would tear it apart in a way that I didn't want to, and I loved it even more I. 1s I loved
Isabelle
12:57
it, I loved it, even the parts that are right. Did you love it? I don't know if I'm clear about this. It was,
Kira
13:03
you know. Did you love it? Okay.
Isabelle
13:05
It just was so good. And there's so many. It is messy, but in a way that I think is accurate and the really bad parts I'm just apparently willing to totally overlook and not factor in. And I can't tell you why, because I don't do that for other movies. But this one speaks to my soul. It's like my comfort rom com movie, and I can't even totally tell you why, but I know you do not feel that way about it.
Kira
13:31
I don't, and it's so funny. I remember before I even reach out to Isabella about this podcast, I started asking people, what kind of movies would you like to see? And you and I have talked pretty openly about how our first few movies we really wanted to be movies that people had seen before multiple times, so they didn't necessarily have to run and watch those movies again to listen to the podcast. But this was a movie that actually came up multiple times for people. People love this movie. It has decent reviews on Rotten Tomatoes. So I saw this in the theater and I remember being very meh about it. So I was like, what am I meant about it? Because here's the deal. I love every single one of these actors. Every single one of them. Huge office fan loves Steve Carell. Huge Julianne Moore fan. I was telling you, I have loved and known Julianne Moore since I this summer, I watched As the World Turns in seventh grade, and she played Franny and had an evil twin sister. So I have known Julianne Moore since like mid 80s Emma Stone, I think I just want to see more with Emma Stone all day, every day. And then Ryan Gosling. I think Ryan Gosling. Gosling is in the Ryan Gosling era right now. He is living his life as Ken. He is. I told you as I started watching this. He is another manic pixie dream guy. For me, that beautiful avoidant who's charming and funny but unavailable. Oh, here, let's just bring it in. Bring it in. And then Kevin Bacon. I fucking love Kevin Bacon. I love him. And then Marissa to me, for that matter. I loved Marisa Tomei since A Different World when she was on that with Lisa Bonet before you were probably born. So what happened? So I myself am surprised I dislike this movie this much, but for me, this movie is so messy. This family is messy as fuck. There's no boundaries, zero skills. They handle almost all of the situation terribly and poorly and man. I did not even remember how terrible Kal is, which is Steve Carell's character once again. Back to after being absolutely captivated by Dom last week in Rylan, we are back to a super unlikable male characters, and then one of the things that really exists in the dating world is this idea of nice guys versus good guys, and to me, this character of Cal is a nice guy. Everybody likes him. He does things for people. He's a good family man, whatever. But he's not a good guy because we do not see him take a very good path as things just start to happen. So I was actually really interested. I had not seen this since I saw it in the theater when it came out. And I really dislike this movie, and I dislike that they make Steve Carell so horrible. And I honestly think they did not even give Julianne Moore that much to work with. Like at all. This is very much Cal's journey. Or very much Jacob's journey. Mhm. I agree with the male journeys because the females don't actually have a ton of character, of story of any of it. And. I have a hard time thinking this is a movie about love. To me, this is. To me, this is a movie about. Unhealthy attachments. 1s Uh, terrible fucking parenting. Terrible parenting.
Isabelle
17:25
The parenting stood out for me as a huge problem across the board and every interaction.
Kira
17:31
And I'm like, terrible parenting and and the attachment stuff, and they're dynamic and we'll get into it. I agree isn't great, but I think it's so accurate. Like this I have couples that I work with who live this, and so that's why I feel so good to me, is because it's not the ridiculous romcom, it's not overly romanticized. It's this like people live like this, this messy way. And so I guess I just.
Isabelle
17:57
Loved it, but I guess I'll love it. No matter.
Kira
18:00
No matter what. Because
Isabelle
18:02
I don't know why. It's just one of those that makes its way into your heart and you're willing to love it despite any flaws.
Kira
18:08
Wow. Yeah.
Isabelle
18:09
Okay. I'm gonna be good about this. No. And it's funny because we've been laughing about it over text and voxer, which is how we communicate before these episodes for the last couple of days, that it's funny because. Our relationship lessons and love lessons are the same. You just look at it as totally okay, and I look at it as, who the fuck are these people and what do they think they're doing? And this is supposed to be love, right? And I'm just like, no, this guy's terrible. And anybody who makes Steve Carell terrible. That is not my favorite movie. That is not my favorite movie, but I going chronologically, let's just get into it because we start this movie off with a bang and I will be talking about later. But this soundtrack is a chef's kiss. It is so good. It starts with John Legend. It has so many fun songs throughout so that the soundtrack was fantastic. But the opening scene we see there in the restaurant deciding if they're going to order dessert or not, Steve Carell is like, okay, what do you think? I shouldn't have filled up on that bread? Kind of very, I think, very Copley conversation. Do you want to split a dessert? But on the count of three, let's say, yeah, on the count of three, let's say what we want, what we want. And then one, two, three, he says, creme brulée. She says, I want a divorce. So here we are. Clearly, Emily has been thinking about this for a long time. For a
Kira
19:43
long, long time.
Isabelle
19:46
Yes. This is not out of nowhere. And I think you made a good point of she does a bad job picking the right moment for something that's so serious. But I had total empathy for her because I'm imagining that she's been trying to reach this man forever, and she's at a breaking point. And you don't get to decide when you break and when it comes out. And for whatever reason, this was a poignant moment for her
Kira
20:08
where it came out. And I have yet to see somebody say they want a divorce in a good way. There's really very few good ways, because once you're at the point of wanting divorce, so much has happened and you're such a bad place with the person, it's not going to look as clean and healthy as we want it to. So I was okay with her announcing it at dinner. I
Isabelle
20:32
know you didn't think it was quite as forgivable.
Kira
20:35
I think about something. Watch what I'm doing here, everybody. I think about something you've said recently on the podcast. Goddamn it. 2s Where you said this, you know you can do that, but it's not particularly effective. And to me, this was not particularly effective. And one of the things I wrote down here is Cal seems blindsided. And I actually have an issue with. 2s Anybody ever being blindsided by somebody being totally unhappy or somebody wanting a divorce. To me, that shows the health of that relationship. If one person is, I'm sorry. Wait, what? That shows the lack of communication. And I think you're right. I think Cal is 100% checked out. We see that from the second this movie starts, that this guy is kind of in his own little spacey world, just trying to get through life. And he basically has stopped showing up for his marriage on some level. We do not see him being a great dad throughout this. But as a couples therapist, do you think that one person should be blindsided by a divorce? Is that I know it's realistic? But since we're trying to teach people better lessons, what should be happening there?
Isabelle
21:59
Ideally, no, you should not be blindsided. But I hold both people responsible for that because most people who ask for a divorce feel like they have been saying it. Every possible way they've been shouting from the rooftops. I'm unhappy this has to change or I want out. And by the time it reaches this point of, okay, this is serious, I'm. I want a divorce. Sometimes that's the one sentence that actually gets through to the other person, and they're blindsided, but they shouldn't be.
Kira
22:25
However, however, I think that he should have been more aware of how unhappy she was, and I don't know who's to blame with that. I think he's to blame, given what we see from him and the rest of the film. But coming out with I want a divorce as opposed to I am so unhappy, I don't see how we can stay together and make this work anymore. And I want to talk about what separating would look like, because I'm at that point that's very different than this is already a decision that's made, that's done in over with and you have no say. So she should have said it in a way that was.
Isabelle
22:59
Very different and inviting conversation. And she. Absolutely. She didn't do that.
Kira
23:05
It. It was a statement, and it was a statement that felt like she's been wanting to say it for a long time, and it was a statement that wasn't open to conversation. And immediately we see Cal shut down. Mhm. Check out. Mhm. And then the next scene we see they're in the car. You can see he's inside his mind going what happened. How did we get here. How did I not know. And she's talking because as a lot of times we do and funnily enough Danny does this in our relationship. But if there's empty space, nobody's talking. Then we start to fill the silence. And so she said, okay, have you nothing to say? You're not talking. Which makes me want to talk more. So maybe I'll just say it. I slept with someone. David Lynn Hagan, aka Kevin Bacon from work. And then. We see Cal. Just keep saying stop, stop, stop talking. And then he actually says, if you don't stop talking, I will jump out of this car. She doesn't stop talking. He jumps out of the car so he would rather potentially hurt himself. Break something, then discuss this marriage and his role in this marriage and we see him say, I'll leave tonight. I'll sign whatever you want. And right away, which is going to be my biggest issue about why this is nothing to do with love is everything about Kal, from this moment on to me, feels like ego and pride more than actual loss or grief of his marriage in his family
Isabelle
24:43
home. So
Kira
24:44
here, tell me what you think. Here is
Isabelle
24:47
the case that I'm going to make and I won't excuse any of the gaps.
Kira
24:51
Please can watch the videos of these because we're ridiculous and Kira just makes Kira, a.k.a. me, just makes my rolls half the time. Go ahead.
Isabelle
25:03
Here's the case I'm going to make to have empathy for Kal. He is a classic extreme example of an avoidant attachment person. Yes, and to the outside observer, they just seem cold and uncaring and unfeeling and resigned. And here she is, anxious, desperate, sharing information, reaching out, wanting him to engage, wanting him to fight. And he looks like he's just done and over with. And there's nothing beneath the surface. But avoidant people are are
Kira
25:33
brewing with pain and feeling and being overwhelmed beneath the surface and you don't see it. So my guess is he is truly panicking. He is so overwhelmed and cannot manage any of her feelings, let alone his own, that, like his protective mechanism, is escape. If it's fight or flight or flee or freeze, he is running. That is how he copes with intolerable feelings. And we see him do it over and over and over again. So I think it's pretty consistent. But I had such empathy seeing him sitting in that seat, hearing his wife is leaving him. He messed up with a coworker. He doesn't know what to do with any of this. He can't make it stop. When avoidant attachment people are in that situation, they find a way to make it stop. And that's what he did. And this is like a dramatized version of it. But this man is just. He just needs some therapy. Somebody get
Isabelle
26:27
this man some support and the space to have his feelings.
Kira
26:31
And it's not that I don't fully understand a fear response to or a trauma response such as fight, flight, fun, and freeze. I'm a freezer, by the way. I shut down, but from the moment she says this, he shuts down. He's. I'm out. There's no conversation. There's no we need to get into therapy. There's no on any level fighting for this relationship. He just takes us at face value and absolutely. To me turns into a resentful asshole. And. 2s Takes his family and other women in his wake in that process of him, instead of going, huh, that's weird. My wife just told me I that she wants a divorce. I don't seem to be aware of it, and my response was to jump out of a car instead of actually recognizing any part of his role in this, he just checks out, leaves. And in the next scene, we actually see them walk in. He's now once again has been distracted. He's jumped out of this car. We have just seen Robbie, the 13 year old son, just get caught masturbating in front of the babysitter he that he is supposedly in love with or is his soul mate. We'll get to that a little bit later, because I'm real psyched about that language. And I think we're supposed to think that that was cute or sweet, but I can't get over the fact that Jessica, from the very first scene she is in, asks him to stop over and over and over, and he completely ignores her, which in my mind is like, what is he learning about love from his parents? What is he learning about love from his family? That we see this kid at 13 years old. Publicly. Privately
Isabelle
28:30
harassing
Kira
28:31
persistently, persistently is the kind way of maybe saying it. This 17 year old woman, who is his babysitter and has no interest in him in that way. And just it makes it very, very clear. So we see that whole scene, and it's weird because they give this 13 year old he acts 100% inappropriately almost his whole entire movie. And then we're also supposed to think he's like a love guru. Like he just makes these random statements that his parents listened to, like they're the Dalai Lama. I'm like, he's a 13 year old and he's a 13 year old who's clearly going through some shit right now, and you guys are so emotionally unavailable and so emotionally immature. You think you're 13 year old son has insight into a relationship versus you who have been in it for 25 fucking years. So they come home. They come home. And before even noticing that his son is in the room, declares they're getting a divorce, which they haven't actually discussed yet, by the way, they haven't discussed. Are we getting a divorce? Is that what we're both agreeing to? So they say this in front of Robbie. He's. Wait, you're what? You're getting a divorce. He's still a 13 year old kid. Yeah. So piss poor parenting there and then. Cal's current ego is more important than his kids and his family's mental health. I just think that Cal sucks this entire movie. He is Joe Fox, casually cruel to me, and I dislike it. If you take Tom Hanks and Steve Carell, two of Hollywood's nicest guys, and make them into these characters, which I do understand what his acting is. Oh,
Isabelle
30:25
tell us how you really feel. Tell us how you really. I
Kira
30:28
just, I, I
Isabelle
30:31
wonder, though, the parenting is abysmal. We need to get a child psychologist on here to talk about how badly they handled everything. They just ignore their kids, right? Like their youngest daughter. They just put in front of the TV every chance they get. They don't even talk to her. For the most part.
Kira
30:50
That's a very young Joey King who did The Kissing Booth, which may we might do at some point and is now a young adult actor. So it's funny to see her, but yeah, they she's just they're flitting around dancing to the TV.
Isabelle
31:03
Terrible, terrible, terrible parenting. But then here's a part that I thought was interesting. They get back, this is decided, he says, I'll sign anything. This is like in his mind, he can't even engage with this conversation. It's easier to divorce her than to have an emotional conversation. Classic avoidant attachment person. And
Kira
31:20
then what are you talking about? That in the sweetest way? Instead of why is this guy not saying, holy shit, my wife wants a divorce. I am checked out of this family. I need to get my ass into therapy because that's what should have happened in this
Isabelle
31:36
moment. Because Kyra, I'm more on the avoidant end of the spectrum, so I think I can just relate to it. If if my husband came home and was like, that's it, I slept with David Lynn Hogan, I want a divorce. And it sounded that final. I could imagine my projections going up and saying, okay, and this is done and we're out. I could imagine just that being a coping response that makes sense to me. It doesn't make sense to everybody. Is it healthy? Is it effective? No, no, no. But obviously I'm very emotionally attached to this. So I'm going to make every excuse possible. 1s I want everybody to notice about when you are justifying the person's you're dating. Bad behavior. You're watching. Isabelle's doing a great job
Kira
32:21
giving that as an example in this podcast right
Isabelle
32:24
now. You are right about your points about him. And then he's also very passive. We'll get into all of the other examples of that, too. But the parenting throughout it is unforgivable.
Kira
32:36
We meet Hannah and Jacob, Emma Stone and Ryan Gosling at the bar
Isabelle
32:40
and right at the like. Super nice fancy bar that I'm not sure she could afford if she's a law student. Still, that didn't really track for me. This is like a fancy bar.
Kira
32:51
That's so funny that you think it's a fancy bar, but. 5s You know, it was going in grad
Isabelle
33:01
school. I mean, I know I fully understand. When I was in college, we were going to a bar that had $1 beers. Right. I do fully get it that she's supposedly in law school and going to a place that has $15 martinis. I don't think so. And I think it's very interesting that even Cal eventually, and we'll talk about that in a second, ends up at this bar. This is a pickup bar, right? This is what in my world is a pickup bar. This is for young professionals dressed to the nines, drinking really expensive cocktails. So the fact that Cal ends up at the fact that Hannah ends up at this bar. Now, Jacob's the only one who seems like he has the finances, that it makes sense that he is at this bar. Because once again. But I want to talk about a really important question that it was brought up in this movie. This is so important.
Kira
33:53
Yes, that was brought up right away when we meet Hannah and her friend, who I thought was slightly terrible. Do you sleep with Conan, Ginger O'Brien or not? Which I feel like this is a great. Isn't he from Boston? Do you feel like.
Isabelle
34:08
Is he. Is he? Listen.
Kira
34:12
No.
Isabelle
34:13
It's a hard no for me. It's a hard
Kira
34:15
yes for me. It's a I fucking love Conan O'Brien. I have loved him for years in his little ridiculousness. I am with Hannah. Emma Stone on this. Yes. I think Conan O'Brien is fantastic.
Isabelle
34:27
Why? I don't get it.
Kira
34:30
He's so funny and goofy and real. I don't think the sex is going to be good, but I think it's going to be fun
Isabelle
34:38
and it's going to be a story. Okay. But
Kira
34:41
I just thought that that was a really funny moment, and there was a lot of actually improvisational lines in this movie. So I wonder if that's one of them. Just like a weird conversation. You get in with somebody. I think everybody has somebody who is not. Like classically attractive that we are attracted to. Maybe that's our question for next week. Maybe that's our fun fact, but I. I love Conan O'Brien. I will always love Conan O'Brien. But anyway, so after that conversation, we see Ryan Gosling. We meet him for the first time and he is on his game, right? They have him like slo mo entrance in these nice shoes and he's in a suit and everything and. Mhm. He flirts
Isabelle
35:31
is means it. He flirts. Oh wow. He like knows what he is doing. He has studied the pickup culture. He has got it down and he does it in such a way with such confidence that I get it right. You get it. Oh even though I know it's dirty, even though I know he is unhealed and insecure on the inside, like the way he does it, I, I wrote down here, do you go home with Ryan Gosling in this situation? And a younger version of me was probably very similar to Hannah, which she would have been like, no, but 50 year old kid was like, looking back at that would be like, fuck yeah, I would, because you don't date Jacob, right?
Kira
36:15
But do you sleep for a night? Make sure
Isabelle
36:18
you do. Yeah. You know what it is. And he knows what it is, and that's what feels okay about it. And that's why I think Cal is too hard on him. Everyone is a consenting adults. Clearly, this is a 100%. He's not promising the boyfriend experience. He is attractive and charismatic and confident, and he's coming in for the kill. And the girls are looking for somebody to come in for the kill. And it works for that reason, not for Emma Stone's character, because she's in a relationship and that's not she doesn't do the hookup thing. Josh Groban, which oh my into, oh my gosh, I love Josh Groban. But I have to say this in the world of dating, which I remember saying this forever going on on Twitter, but one woman's stalking is another woman's romantic, right? We could absolutely
Kira
37:06
say that. Jacob's actually pretty respectful. You know, he's there, he's charming, he's persistent. He's got I put down lots of. But it's always feels
Isabelle
37:17
safe. He would stop. It
Kira
37:19
does safe. You're absolutely right. I never feel like he's going to push himself on me. I never I feel if I say no, he will get that. He'll walk away. He's. Does it feel gross? I think that's probably why it works so well. Yeah, but. It is hilarious to me how one person will say, oh my gosh, this person like sent me flowers and I loved it. And they did this and they did that. And somebody else can do the exact same thing. But if we're not interested in them, then we're like, oh my God, they're like stalking me. That's too much, too much. So I always think it's very interesting how one person would be like, oh yeah, that's gross to me. And the other person might be like, that's super romantic. That's a reason to have a lot of empathy with people when you're dating too. But okay, so obviously we love Jacob. There's so we can agree on that with this film. Of course. I
Isabelle
38:09
mean, 100% of
Kira
38:10
course, Ryan Gosling is pretty peak Ryan Gosling in this movie, right? And then in the bar, we see Cal, who could not be a bigger foil to Ryan Gosling's demeanor, confidence, attractiveness, respectful ness, even as he's going in to pick people up and take them home. And this, I think, really gets to you seeing Cal in the bar, the way he's talking about people acting in general is just. 1s Pathetic. Clearly Cal is down and out. He is going through something. But there's a lot of ways to handle yourself down and out and going through something. And he is downright creepy in this bar. So the first thing we see him say is, yeah, I've driven by this place a lot of times. It's a nice bar, lots of pretty girls. I'm like, what? That's so creepy. Who says that? Because lots of pretty girls. Makes me feel like he's talking about, like, 22 year olds. I know, get it together, Cal. He's probably mid late 40 something in this movie. I know we're supposed to get that he's a fish out of water in this scenario, but he feels creepy and I don't like that for his character at all. There is ways for him to be frustrated, disappointed, hurt, even in pain without being gross. And he felt a little gross. And he's yelling over and over, but not he lost his wife, not his family or his children. But he's yelling about David fucking Linda Morgan, and he's not sad about losing his wife and a family, but just that his wife screwed David, Linda Morgan,
Isabelle
39:55
and he was cuckolded. And that's the term he wants to bring back. Lord help him. So I agree with all of this, but I do see I do see this.
Kira
40:07
Are. 2s I can't
Isabelle
40:11
help myself. I don't even want to defend Cal. I want to defend what Cal represents in this movie, because it feels so real to me. Because people do this, they don't focus on. I just lost the person that I love most in the world. They don't blame that person for cheating on them and hurting them. They focus on the third the affair part. But that person. Here's the deal. You're absolutely right. But that person doesn't get. His wife back in the end. That person, the person you're describing, is it very real? 100% is due people. Not just men, but are there people who walk away from a relationship blaming their ex, or blaming the person that their ex might have connected with or had a relationship with? Apps of fucking lutely. But does that person get an out and get to be with with his wife at the end after zero work? No, not
Kira
41:08
not in my world. Not in my world, Isabel. But somebody here disagrees with that. And you actually wrote down also, why is he at the bar and not with his fucking kids who are now watching their parents go through a divorce?
Isabelle
41:22
Well, and that's and I want to hold both of them to that because this babysitter is working every other night. They are never at home with their kids. If they're getting divorce, they're splitting the week now with their kids. You can't go on a date on the three days you don't have them or the weekend or whatever. You can't wait to go to the bar.
Kira
41:41
Why are you in the bar? Immediately after your wife has asked for a divorce. Why are you trying to get attention from pretty girls?
Isabelle
41:54
Well. It's very. When your
Kira
41:56
ass needs to be home wondering what I did and where are my kids? I think that they've made him the worst of men in some level. And. And tried to sell it as love for me. Tried to sell this as grief. But his grief is pride and ego. It's it's about David Linden and not his wife.
Isabelle
42:17
So I hate to do this again. Here is gonna stop doing this podcast with me after this episode. I agree, except that I think society has done a disservice to men in particular about how to feel feelings and what's appropriate. This man has not been taught how to feel grief, how to process his emotions, how to talk to people. Even when he reaches out to his friend. We know that doesn't work out. He has no skills here. What? He knows what he's saying, which is when you've been cuckolded, you go to the bar and drink your sorrows away. And that's what he does. Is that healthy? Does that work? Is that how you should process your feelings? Absolutely not. Absolutely not. No one watched this and take that as the lesson, but I think it does speak to how we sort of like we haven't helped men learn.
Kira
43:05
Do I talk about this on my podcast all the time? And in fact, I'm planning on doing a series coming up about. How do we move forward for men? Because we're definitely in a tough place right now. I see guys who are noticing the toxic masculine masculinity. That's what it is, and also questioning it with this cool crossroads. And I couldn't agree more. I talk about how we as a culture, I grew up in the 70s and 80s, being that first generation who said, if you want to be a doctor, as a woman, you can actually be a doctor. If you want to be an astronaut, you can be an astronaut if you want to. So there were opportunities for me as a young girl that my mother did not see as possibilities. However, on the other side of that. In no way did we ever say to, to, to boys, and we're going to let you cry. We're going to let you learn how to have emotions and create real friendships and bond and connect with people. I fully get what you're absolutely saying. I just think we see kind of the worst of the worst. They just didn't give Cal a lot of redeeming qualities again in this. And that's what's hard. And it's not that I can't look at. I mean, there is downright funny ass moments. Steve Carell is a funny person, right? There are some moments where you can't help but laugh either at him or with him. But I dislike immensely the. Kind of shitty person that they made him and the way that he reacted. And does it feel possibly real? Yeah. But I also want to say that he should be home with his kids. He should be home figuring out where to go from here and not just drunkenly making inappropriate comments in a bar, because I've been in enough bars in my life to know that guy in the corner making inappropriate comments. I don't like that guy. And this
Isabelle
45:07
is just reinforcing what I'm sure is her fear, right? Which is that he's checked out. He won't put in the work, he's not going to show up. Even her saying she's slept with someone else and wants a divorce isn't enough to get him to show up and self-reflect and engage. So it's not doing him any favors, not doing him any favors.
Kira
45:28
And to tell you the absolute truth, because I did. I asked myself, why does 2s Isabelle love this movie so much? And I just dislike it so much? I like question myself, right? I challenge what beliefs are what is this here? And it really just comes down to I agree with everything you're saying. You agree with everything I'm saying. But at the end, we made this a love story for Carl and Emily, and I don't think it should have been. And we can get there. But I do think that this is very real to how some, not even men, but just particularly somebody who has been asked to end a relationship would respond or react. Absolutely. I just hate that they did this to him and that this was the lesson that we're supposed to take away. But after all of those. So we see Cal shouting at the bar, the exact same bar that you know, we now know. I believe we're pretty much spoiling this movie at this point. We now know that his daughter was just in, you know, so he's hanging out at bars that his 24 year old daughter's hanging out. So that's interesting. But we then see cut to Cal and Emily in the driveway. He's moving out. He's got a U-Haul there. She actually offers to back it out of the driveway to help because she's. You're not as good at that. I can help out here. And you can see her. She's watching him. She knows he's hurting. I don't think that this is exactly what she thought would happen. Maybe. I think she was. What you said was she brought up. I want a divorce. I think to get his attention to say this isn't working for me. We need to look at this and work on this. And that is not the response she got, unfortunately. But she is just throwing out whatever to get his attention. And she says, I think I might be having a midlife crisis. Can women have midlife crisis? But first of all, I just want to say to that, of course I've been saying, I think I've been midlife crisis scene for five years and stirring in some perimenopause while we're at it. So it's a very, very real thing. And just the fact that they put this in a script that a female wouldn't know that women were able to have midlife crisis. Okay.
Isabelle
47:40
But so I thought that was her attempt to reach him once again. Is that a framework that he would understand that I'm so unhappy and everything feels so crazy, like a midlife crisis? Maybe not. Maybe she really doesn't know that women are allowed to also have midlife crisis because we have midlife just like men do. But
Kira
47:58
we do. We absolutely do. But he is just so chucked out. He is so incapable of having a real conversation. She is putting out all of these, like, little feelers or moments, hoping he'll grab on to something and kind of say, let's talk about it or I am going to move out. But maybe let's sit down next weekend and we'll get the baby sitter again for the kids and
Isabelle
48:26
communicate with each other,
Kira
48:28
right? And actually, just because they seem to both be drinkers, have a glass of wine and just talk some things out. None of these. There is no chance at repair. There's no chance of. He has just. Absolutely checked out.
Isabelle
48:43
Yes. But I my heart. Oh, this really did. And she is reaching out over and over on all these small ways. And he is not picking her up. Picking her up. He is not taking her up on it. He goes right past it. He goes into these really stupid things like gardening, like making sure she knows how to take care of the roses instead of listening to what his wife is saying, which is, I'm not doing well, I'm unhappy. Something has to change. And inviting him to be a part of it. And he doesn't. He doesn't see it. Or if he sees it, he doesn't take it. And it's confusing to me as to why what's going on for him that he doesn't want to hear more about this from her or try to fix things because apparently she's his soulmate, so why doesn't he want to stay with her? But I think this is the part of Cal that I really don't like, and we don't see change much throughout the whole film. He just he misses it. He misses really important emotional information. It drives us crazy.
Kira
49:39
And I think, yes, and because we don't see him grow that much, honestly, we really, really don't. And it's fake growing. But I will say one thing about Emily or Julianne Moore's character is that her timing is just off. So she's trying to start a conversation of once again in this driveway. And I'm like, this is not it. Quit trying to bring up these moments like schedule a time, ask to sit down. And it's like, I feel like she would go to her friends or even her therapist and say, I'm really trying to talk to him. But once again, back to you. It's not effective.
Isabelle
50:21
It's not effective. I know
Kira
50:22
it's not effective timing. It's not effective placement.
Isabelle
50:28
Except, see, I didn't say, but there, I said, except this time just to switch it up. 1s From couples that I have worked with. Here is what I would guess she would say, which is I've spent 20 years trying to find the right time asking to have a weekly marriage check in, prefacing what I'm going to say, asking when he is available to talk and when he feels up for it. And it has never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever worked. You don't get to a lot
Kira
50:57
of assumptions, Doctor Isobel Morley, that's a lot of
Isabelle
51:00
assumptions, but I have research to back it up. If this is what happens with a negative. Emily. And this moves me. Oh, no. Hypothetically, between people who are having avoidant and an anxious attachment style, but I'm guessing there just is no best time to talk to him. And she's desperate at this point, and there is no best time to talk to him. This man is a stonewall. Nothing's getting through to him until he decides it is so. If it's the best time for her, I think that's fine. For me, there's no good time for him. So this movie would have just gotten better for me if she would have showed up at this bar, ordered a drink, sat down next to him and said, since you want to talk to everybody in this bar, let's do it. Let's do it right now. Since that would have been interesting to me, because he does want to talk to anybody who will listen as soon as he gets a drink in him. He just doesn't want to talk to his wife. Yeah.
Kira
51:54
Well, he's very self-righteous in his anger, which is a very good feeling. We love being self-righteously angry. It's it's protective, right? We're not to blame the other person's to blame. And he can't be like that with her because he she sees him and she knows the full story, which is that he's a part of why this happened. But at a bar with a drink, he can just be a poor, cuckolded husband who is licking his wounds.
Isabelle
52:23
Mhm. 4s I like this next part. So the next thing we see is he's back at the bar.
Kira
52:32
So we see Cal back, back at the bar. She writes
Isabelle
52:36
why. Why is he back in a pickup bar. 1s Why
Kira
52:41
is he I see you I once again would you not go to some slightly dive bar where there's probably other people your age who are bitching about their wives drinking during the day, everything else. Instead, he has gone to this very nice martini bar that's like an after work happy hour type of place for you. Once again, young professionals like, why is this the bar he chose? He lives in LA. There are many bars in LA. I lived in LA. I used to go to an English pub in LA. Right. There are many places. Why this bar? Why would he go to this way too young for him. Should not be in there. You look like a dirty old man. Pick up bar as you're shouting David Lynn Hagen's name as you drink vodka. Cranberries.
Isabelle
53:37
Yeah. Why don't you do that at home? Quite honestly. Oh, but this scene, he's out for a reason. Because his friend is coming to see him, which, I mean, I would like to imagine. Let me talk about it. He's sitting there drinking. His friend comes up with a gift. I would like to imagine that Cal had reached out to his friend to be like, I'm going through divorce. It would be great to talk to you and get some emotional support. We know that's not what happened. We don't know. And his friend has a quick drink and basically says, I can't be friends with you anymore. My wife has said, we're picking Emily and the divorce and ends his friendship and gives him a lovely gift of Cologne, because that makes everything better when you end a friendship for no reason. And this, I think, is a really bad lesson that we should get rid of. You do not have to make your friends pick when you break up or divorce, and people might choose to if something egregious happens, or if there wasn't much of a friendship there to begin with anyway. But this idea that his wife, really the friend's wife, pushed we have to pick one or the other is crazy to me, and I don't think people really feel this way anymore, but it was painful to see it. To force breakups are bad enough without losing friends. 1s And that's just what I wrote down here that actually felt really real. I've heard that from many of my clients who are now divorced or gone out through a major breakup, and just how either their ex lost their friends because maybe they were her friends, or vice versa, and how hard that already is. You're grieving. You're missing some in your life. There's a major change in transition. We talked about that last week with breakups. And then to have your community, the very people that ultimately and ideally, we want to see you lean on and talk to and possibly give you some thoughtful insight, too, is I'm out because my wife told me, here's some Cologne that we're on Emily's side. I mean,
Kira
55:31
anybody have a good relationship in this movie?
Isabelle
55:33
No, no, because first of all, that's. Well, no.
Kira
55:37
That's why we're doing a double episode. Right. So
Isabelle
55:39
the friends relationship with his
Kira
55:40
wife. That's a little enmeshed for me. Even if you decide you have to pick people, you can each pick a different person. There's no reason why you can't still separately be friends with separate people in the divorce. If that is a framework you have to operate within. But also, this doesn't feel like it's coming from Emily. I don't think she said to this couple, they know you've got to pick miracle. This is the friend's decision to make that a thing that has to happen, which was weird to me, but I think it's to emphasize that Cal's alone, that everybody is leaving him, and he's just
Isabelle
56:11
a sad, cuckolded man with no friends
Kira
56:15
that he created, by the way, by acting and not doing any kind of self-reflection on who he is in his marriage, as a parent, in his friendships and in his life. So that wow, I am clearly triggered by Cal. Don't know what that's about. We'll
Isabelle
56:32
talk about it afterwards. This is bringing some stuff
Kira
56:34
up. I just I just think on some level they're showing this behavior. And forgiving this behavior. Like thinking it's funny, right? Because this is a romantic comedy and to me it's problematic and terrible.
Isabelle
56:54
Yeah. And he. And like we know he doesn't grow enough. He doesn't own it. Own the ways in which he has been inappropriate and mean. Whatever. Enough. To let it be funny in the beginning, because he doesn't figure out how bad it was at the end. He's more inappropriate. He's just talking loudly, yelling at the the, the bar staff, things like that. Shouting David Lynch hugging Hogan's name, quick trivia fact David Lynch Hagen the his name info was said 19 times during this movie. Somebody counted. I thought that was hilarious. But this is where the Jacob and Cal, if we want to call it friendship mentorship. Miyagi I don't know. He calls. So I love that Jacob is pretty hitting on a woman and is so disturbed by Cal's behavior, which honestly, I'm glad somebody was calls him over, but then cuts him down immediately with things that are important to him, meaning Jacob, but not necessarily the situation he's projecting. He's making a bunch of assumptions like, what's wrong with you? You're wearing the wrong size clothes.
Kira
58:08
It's the shoes. It's his manhood. He makes it about masculinity versus actually connection, which is the reason that Cal is there. And he didn't tend to his marriage. But Cal likes it because he wants to change externally, not internally. So when this guy says, I'm going to and and you wrote it down here, I'm going to help you regain your manhood, I'm going to help you, blah, blah, blah. For some reason, Cal, instead of thinking, man, I need to win back my wife and I need to talk to somebody and think about that's where Cal goes, which says a lot to me about the healthy or unhealthy mental state, the collision. Yeah. Go ahead.
Isabelle
58:51
I think this Jacob reaches him at the exact right or wrong time, right, to come in and cut him down and say he's not masculine enough because he's using a straw in his cocktail, which represents a penis. Right? This is very Freudian, Jacob. We don't have. I mean, all of
Kira
59:07
it don't use a straw because it's environmentally shitty.
Isabelle
59:11
There are other reasons, Jacob. Okay, making fun of the drink he has because it's what a 13 year old girl would drink or whatever. Why is it
Kira
59:19
a 13 year old girl drinking? Oh well. Jacob. 3s I didn't even know what 13 year old girls drink. Jacob.
Isabelle
59:30
Wow. I didn't even catch that. Great point.
Kira
59:33
Shocking. So, I
Isabelle
59:35
mean, wait, so making fun of cael for being too girly. And cael, I think this does speak to the manhood piece of being. And this is a thing I think some men feel being cheated on means that you weren't man enough, that it is a knock on your ego. It's the whole being cuckolded. And the way to regain that is to get those toxic masculinity traits back in place. This is like the worst lesson. Like you said, this is not at all why his wife cheated on him and wants to leave him. But this is what men have been taught to do. This is what an effective man is, and so I'm sure it's appealing to him to feel powerful again in this way. And he just loves Jacob. Run the show.
Kira
60:19
Yeah. And I just wrote down here as a reminder, you can absolutely sleep with Jacob, but he is not your dream guy. He is emotionally unavailable as fuck. I don't actually think that changes too much this movie, but I think it's really easy to see him as once again, this hurt guy with a heart of gold, and we just need the right woman to talk to him in the right way, and then he's in. 1s We can continue to get into that, but I just know that's just not true.
Isabelle
60:55
Not the way it happens. It's not typically the way it happens. No. But yeah. Have a good time with him. Don't think he's going to be a great husband.
Kira
61:03
Don't think he's going to be a great partner because this is what. 1s I love to talk about witches. There are so many anxious attachment because that's really coming up this time, right? Avoidant, anxious, and who just believe deep down that if a person loves them enough, they'll change. And I say regularly, you can't love someone more than their fear. You can't love someone more than their unhealed stuff that they have not taken care of. And it doesn't matter how much you show up and what you do and how much you love them, you can't love them more than the work that they need to do. And it's their work.
Isabelle
61:42
Yeah. Yeah, I think that makes sense. Jacob has work and we see him seemingly having done it, but there's just no way that he did it in the way he would need to become emotionally available after being cut off for so long, but here, nor there.
Kira
61:58
So we're then in Cal's new apartment, where Robby just declares that love sucks because he is
Isabelle
62:06
wrapped up in his. Yes, pursued his 17 year old babysitter and has now decided love sucks. Cal is barely listening. Molly, the youngest, is just dancing in front of the TV. She's see Cal at some point pay 800 and some dollar barbell. He needs to be saving for his kids therapy, so he needs to stop spending money like that in a pickup bar because he'll be saving for them. But then we see Cal say your mom wants you to stay here while she's out hooking.
Kira
62:40
Isabel. Share
Isabelle
62:41
that with us. I can't I can't justify this at all. Their parenting is unjustifiable. I think everyone knows by now. If you're if you're breaking up, getting divorce, you do not put your kids in the middle of it. You don't tell them things about the other person. You don't ask them questions about the other parent. And the main reason being is that your kids are half of both of you. So if you're shitting on the other person or you're asking what they're up to, it makes the kid feel weird about who they are, like their own sense of self, but also like the role they're playing in mediating between the two parents who should be mediating between themselves and the way they put their kids in the middle. Even in the romantic, cute big gesture scenes, the way they put the kids in the middle I hate that is the one part of this movie that I, I will rail against with you, so I hope you enjoy that. 1s I enjoy none of it. Uh. 3s No, but I mean, I just by the way, I held up my finger like, that's the one thing. That's the one is the parenting. That's the one thing. But yeah. So they aren't paying attention to the kids. We then see Hannah Banana's party. So for finishing law school, I believe we meet her boyfriend Josh Groban, which I like Josh Groban. He's full of himself and nerdy and very young. Lori and and makes this reference to next time we're all together, there'll be a big announcement or a big question to ask. And it's interesting. And you and I talked about this, and she goes to her friend and says, do you think he's going to propose? First of all, you should know that that's maybe on the horizon. We've talked about this. You should never be shocked that your partner wants to marry you. And then her reasoning for wanting to get married is that he's nice, he's nice, and her friend pushes her on that, which is good because that's a nice partner isn't enough of a reason to marry them. But I think what you posed here is so important. So I'll let you say. Like, why is this what she's asking? Why is this what she thinks a good relationship is?
Kira
64:51
What has Hannah learned about her parents? About love and intimacy. That's what she thinks a relationship should look like. That's one of the things I talk a lot about with my clients. What did you learn about love? Because we all learn love a little bit differently from our family, from our caretakers. And so what did she learn from her parents? That nice is good enough. There seemed to be very little connection later on when when they talk, he was like, gosh, I haven't really thought about a major future for us. So that says to me the connection and intimacy and depth of the relationship that they seem today, and everybody's smiling and everybody's going through the motions. But it's broke down. It's not clear she even likes him. It's just that she thinks he's a nice, stable guy, which is what is that? What she learned, as we now know from her parents, is that what she learned? That her dad is a nice, stable guy, although questionably nice, during this part of his life, but. It all feels so out of her power. It all feels like she is just showing up. Oh, he's going to plan this. And I guess I'll just say yes or no. That's going to happen and I'll just come along for the ride. And I am very irritated as adults that we treat relationships like that, that women are supposed to just come along and somebody's supposed to choose you and woo you, and you're just there enjoying the whole experience and not having to put too much thought or time into it. And that's how we end up in these relationships that suck.
Isabelle
66:27
Yeah, I saw Maurice her just like checking boxes. I'm going to go to law school. I'm going to pass the bar. I'm going to get married. And considering what we know about her parents, which is that they got pregnant at 17, got married to raise her, you could see how this is. You just do these things when in order, you get things set up and you find the nice enough person, you settle down with them and have a life with them. It makes sense. She's living a very easy life. I'll take that back. Not an easy life, but she's walking the very normal path. Milestone, milestone. And we see her break away from that once it's she's shaken up. So
Kira
67:02
next we see Cael and Jacob at the mall. So I do love a good makeover in a movie. I know that's terrible, but I do, and I and you mentioned how you like that. It's this time, a guy versus a woman, which is fantastic. I also put down no jeans and a new haircut. Are fixing Cal in this situation. His needs are beyond jeans and a haircut. They can help, by the way, but that doesn't actually create a better situation. And I think that sometimes we do. We want to change our external factors. I very much here when people get out of a breakup, as you mentioned, cut off your hair or cut bangs or we want to lose weight so that we can get ourselves back out there and things like that. And if we're not internally looking at what happened, what was my role? How can I do this better in the future? You can give yourself a makeover, but that also should be part of the conversation. Um,
Isabelle
67:53
and I think he sees it as I stopped trying. Right. Jacob frames it as you just gave up because you give up on your appearance and finding the right suit size. He gave up in many ways. He emotionally gave up and stopped
Kira
68:07
showing up. He maybe never was emotionally there. And we can say, you know that at 15 he met his soulmate and bought her ice cream. But they got married at 17 because she got pregnant. There's a very good chance that Cal has never been able to show up or been a grown up in this relationship.
Isabelle
68:22
Yeah, well, we don't see it by the end of the film, so there's no reason to think it was happening beforehand and just fade it over time. But I think it's this idea and this is important because people do think, well, they gave up. 1s If flirting or dating or all of these things. But the most important thing is showing up emotionally and tuning in. When your partner is looking for a connection or conversation, it's those small moments that add up more than if you're wearing a shirt that fits or not. The internal work is just harder, though it is much easier to get a quick glow up and feel better about how you look and how you are presenting yourself in the world, then digging deep and seeing where you really messed up with somebody.
Kira
69:02
You have one of them gets your results and one of them doesn't, doesn't. And that's what I just want to remind people, right. One of them is ultimately getting you to the place. And I'm going to say that because of the way that I view love and the way that I describe love in the way that I teach it. I'm so triggered by the word soulmate. By the way, that's probably the very reason that I don't like this movie. I hate the word soulmate in the dating world. I watched a couple of documentaries this year on Twin Flames. I just I really think that when we believe there's one person out there for us. It doesn't lead to critical thinking about how to date with intention, who we choose, and can put us in a lot of really not great places. I don't believe in a soul mate. I believe if you do have a soul mate, you create that soul mate. I would say that Danny's my soul mate, but that's because we work our butt off at it and we've made each other our soul mates, our sambuca drink and dumpster makeout was not kismet. It was a choice. And it was a choice that we kept choosing. That's in further conversation. We talk about soul mates. We talk about falling in love. We talk about how he met his soul mate at 15. Maybe you met a really great match for you at 15, but you have not tended to this relationship. You have not made this relationship okay to call her a soul mate. And so you have not done the work for me to use those words. Mhm.
Isabelle
70:30
I agree with that 100%. It keeps people in bad relationships and it keeps people out of good relationships. Because if there's I have an idea that when you find your soul mate it's easy, all your stuff isn't a problem anymore because you're just right for each other. You're going to you're going to leave a lot of really good people because you think that's not your soulmate, and that's not how you build a really good relationship.
Kira
70:53
It's just so true. The thing about the scene is that Jacob said, your wife cheated on you because you lost sight of who you are as a man, as a husband, and probably as a lover. And I wrote my way, right? Was your wife cheated on you because you got distracted? You stopped connecting and prioritizing the relationship you love cannot stay and evolve and keep going. If we are not tending to our relationship and both of us attending to our partners. Period.
Isabelle
71:24
But this also happens where people get disconnected and they they lose touch with themselves and each other. And that's when you re-up on your investment in the relationship. When you read all the books, when you you actually set a weekly date to talk about your marriage and your life together, where you go to couples therapy. And they clearly didn't do that. That work was not done. And so there was no way to solve it for Emily but to exit. You can understand why.
Kira
71:54
Okay guys, that's it for today. We will be back next week with part two breaking down the rest of this movie, so be excited
Isabelle
72:04
about that. If you like this, subscribe or follow on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favorite podcast platform.
Kira
72:11
And if you loved it and we sure hope you did, please leave a review. You can also get resources Shownotes. Enjoyed the rom com community at rom com rescue.com.
Isabelle
72:22
Until next week, create your own happily ever after.
